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date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:19:47 -0500,
group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
back
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:19:47 -0500, "Warren DesJardins"
wrote:
> We now have a useless scanner (Epson 1200u) thanks to Vista being
> incompatible with it's software. We have no way to print pictures, thanks to
> Vista being incompatible with our HP printer/it's graphic software. Thanks
> to Vista we will now be forced to either purchase new perifs, waste a lot of
> time moving files from the XP machines in the back office or do without.
What you describe is very often (but not always) the situation.
But I'd like to point out that this has *nothing* to do with Vista in
particular. It has to do with having older peripheral devices and
switching to any new operating system.
Writing drivers for a new operating system is the responsibility of
the manufacturer of the peripheral device. The manufacturer has to
decide whether it's in his financial interest to do so. If the device
is a relative new one, his decision is usually to write the new
drivers because doing so helps him sell more of those devices. If the
device is older, it hardly ever helps him to write drivers for a new
operating system and he hardly ever does.
By the way, anyone contemplating changing to a new operating system
should always check in advance whether drivers exist for all the
devices he owns. It's a normal part of deciding whether it makes sense
for you to upgrade operating systems. It looks like you neglected to
do that in advance.
> The last two computers for our office will be ordered from Dell
> and have XP installed.
Your choice, of course.
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 17:49:13 -0700
author: Ken Blake, MVP in
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
Nevertheless, Microsoft, being one of the leaders in the industry and the
provider of the widely used Windows, should spend much more efforts on
collaborating and working with printer manufacturers for providing much
better generic printer and/or scanner drivers, at least, for basic
functions.
This software blames hardware and hardware blames software game should have
been ended long time ago with the introduction of plug-and-play.
Ultimately, it will haunt back to the company if problem persists because it
will only get more, but not less, consumer and business who would think that
it's ridiculous to upgrade to or purchase new hardware and software for
otherwise working well ones because of a new OS, also given the fact of the
diminishing return of
newer OS.
"Rick Rogers" wrote in message
news:OL06V70JJHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> You're blaming the wrong party. Epson is responsible for writing
> supporting software for their hardware under any given operating system.
> In many cases it's not that they can't, the specs for Vista have been out
> for several years. They don't because if forces you to buy new hardware,
> there's no profit in spending time writing new software for old products.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>
> "Warren DesJardins" wrote in message
> news:48e959b7@news.x-privat.org...
>> We now have a useless scanner (Epson 1200u) thanks to Vista being
>> incompatible with it's software. We have no way to print pictures, thanks
>> to Vista being incompatible with our HP printer/it's graphic software.
>> Thanks to Vista we will now be forced to either purchase new perifs,
>> waste a lot of time moving files from the XP machines in the back office
>> or do without.
>>
>> The last two computers for our office will be ordered from Dell and have
>> XP installed.
>>
>>
>
date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:17:15 -0700
author: xfile
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
> The OP's scanner WILL WORK with Vista !
That's great but we are talking about the major compatibility problems
existing for so long.
One can cry out loud and flame all people who are not using a newer OS as
being a hater and basher of the company, or one could try to solve the cause
of the problem.
I was hoping the later one to read the message but not the former one.
"D. Eth" wrote in message news:gcbt98$r85$1@aioe.org...
> "xfile" wrote in message
> news:uX1xsm1JJHA.4672@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Nevertheless, Microsoft, being one of the leaders in the industry and the
>> provider of the widely used Windows, should spend much more efforts on
>> collaborating and working with printer manufacturers for providing much
>> better generic printer and/or scanner drivers, at least, for basic
>> functions.
>>
>> This software blames hardware and hardware blames software game should
>> have
>> been ended long time ago with the introduction of plug-and-play.
>>
>> Ultimately, it will haunt back to the company if problem persists because
>> it
>> will only get more, but not less, consumer and business who would think
>> that
>> it's ridiculous to upgrade to or purchase new hardware and software for
>> otherwise working well ones because of a new OS, also given the fact of
>> the diminishing return of
>> newer OS.
>>
>>
>
>
> The OP's scanner WILL WORK with Vista !
> What do you think MS should do ?
> Send someone over there to get his thumb out of his arse ?
> Good Gosh !
> It's probably not even plugged in !
>
> --
> Ens causa sui
> Fit caedes omnibus locis
date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:42:54 -0700
author: xfile
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
"xfile" wrote in message
news:uX1xsm1JJHA.4672@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Nevertheless, Microsoft, being one of the leaders in the industry and the
> provider of the widely used Windows, should spend much more efforts on
> collaborating and working with printer manufacturers for providing much
> better generic printer and/or scanner drivers, at least, for basic
> functions.
>
> This software blames hardware and hardware blames software game should
> have
> been ended long time ago with the introduction of plug-and-play.
>
> Ultimately, it will haunt back to the company if problem persists because
> it
> will only get more, but not less, consumer and business who would think
> that
> it's ridiculous to upgrade to or purchase new hardware and software for
> otherwise working well ones because of a new OS, also given the fact of
> the diminishing return of
> newer OS.
Nonsense. How many manufacturers does Apple contact? They even hamstring
their own developers!
date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 14:33:30 -0700
author: Telstar none@none
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
> Nonsense. How many manufacturers does Apple contact? They even hamstring
> their own developers!
So what is the market share for Apple? Why not compare with Linux if you
want a even smaller market share?
You believe sitting there and doing nothing can be a leader of any kind? I
won't say it's nonsense but it's kind of naive.
"Telstar" <none@none> wrote in message
news:e1V0us$JJHA.5336@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> "xfile" wrote in message
> news:uX1xsm1JJHA.4672@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Nevertheless, Microsoft, being one of the leaders in the industry and the
>> provider of the widely used Windows, should spend much more efforts on
>> collaborating and working with printer manufacturers for providing much
>> better generic printer and/or scanner drivers, at least, for basic
>> functions.
>>
>> This software blames hardware and hardware blames software game should
>> have
>> been ended long time ago with the introduction of plug-and-play.
>>
>> Ultimately, it will haunt back to the company if problem persists because
>> it
>> will only get more, but not less, consumer and business who would think
>> that
>> it's ridiculous to upgrade to or purchase new hardware and software for
>> otherwise working well ones because of a new OS, also given the fact of
>> the diminishing return of
>> newer OS.
>
> Nonsense. How many manufacturers does Apple contact? They even hamstring
> their own developers!
>
date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:18:26 -0700
author: xfile
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:jmnie4h62i3e6tdc7atvahatmlh9u1hssv@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:19:47 -0500, "Warren DesJardins"
> wrote:
>
>> We now have a useless scanner (Epson 1200u) thanks to Vista being
>> incompatible with it's software. We have no way to print pictures, thanks
>> to
>> Vista being incompatible with our HP printer/it's graphic software.
>> Thanks
>> to Vista we will now be forced to either purchase new perifs, waste a lot
>> of
>> time moving files from the XP machines in the back office or do without.
>
>
> What you describe is very often (but not always) the situation.
>
> But I'd like to point out that this has *nothing* to do with Vista in
> particular. It has to do with having older peripheral devices and
> switching to any new operating system.
Right. I didn't know it would be such a problem. We all use the scanner and
it's a real PITA to have to go to the back office to scan, then burn the
scans to a CDRW to move to this PC. I wish I can called Dell for a machine
with XP on it. I see no advantage to Vista.
>
> Writing drivers for a new operating system is the responsibility of
> the manufacturer of the peripheral device. The manufacturer has to
> decide whether it's in his financial interest to do so. If the device
> is a relative new one, his decision is usually to write the new
> drivers because doing so helps him sell more of those devices. If the
> device is older, it hardly ever helps him to write drivers for a new
> operating system and he hardly ever does.
>
> By the way, anyone contemplating changing to a new operating system
> should always check in advance whether drivers exist for all the
> devices he owns. It's a normal part of deciding whether it makes sense
> for you to upgrade operating systems. It looks like you neglected to
> do that in advance.
I was misled. I believed the crap the most things will work on Vista 32 bit.
I didn't believe some of the warnings I was getting from people. Too late
now. I just spent $40 to use the scanner and save us all a hassle. Not only
did it cost $40 but the software is nowhere near as good as AdobePhotoDeluxe
that we got with the scanner.
>
>
>> The last two computers for our office will be ordered from Dell
>> and have XP installed.
>
>
> Your choice, of course.
>
> --
> Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup
date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:52:35 -0500
author: Warren DesJardins
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
"xfile" wrote in message
news:uX1xsm1JJHA.4672@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Nevertheless, Microsoft, being one of the leaders in the industry and the
> provider of the widely used Windows, should spend much more efforts on
> collaborating and working with printer manufacturers for providing much
> better generic printer and/or scanner drivers, at least, for basic
> functions.
Amen brother.
>
> This software blames hardware and hardware blames software game should
> have
> been ended long time ago with the introduction of plug-and-play.
>
> Ultimately, it will haunt back to the company if problem persists because
> it
> will only get more, but not less, consumer and business who would think
> that
> it's ridiculous to upgrade to or purchase new hardware and software for
> otherwise working well ones because of a new OS, also given the fact of
> the diminishing return of
> newer OS.
>
>
>
>
> "Rick Rogers" wrote in message
> news:OL06V70JJHA.2208@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> You're blaming the wrong party. Epson is responsible for writing
>> supporting software for their hardware under any given operating system.
>> In many cases it's not that they can't, the specs for Vista have been out
>> for several years. They don't because if forces you to buy new hardware,
>> there's no profit in spending time writing new software for old products.
>>
>> --
>> Best of Luck,
>>
>> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>>
>> "Warren DesJardins" wrote in message
>> news:48e959b7@news.x-privat.org...
>>> We now have a useless scanner (Epson 1200u) thanks to Vista being
>>> incompatible with it's software. We have no way to print pictures,
>>> thanks
>>> to Vista being incompatible with our HP printer/it's graphic software.
>>> Thanks to Vista we will now be forced to either purchase new perifs,
>>> waste a lot of time moving files from the XP machines in the back office
>>> or do without.
>>>
>>> The last two computers for our office will be ordered from Dell and have
>>> XP installed.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:58:04 -0500
author: Warren DesJardins
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
> Well, why not check the Epson site and his printer site first. Takes less
> than 2 mins and he would have known the manufacturers of that hardware did
> not have Vista drivers available.
That will be one of good ways for suggesting people to do BEFORE purchasing,
right?
Putting a warning label for things-to-de and -check before making a purchase
decision instead misleading how easy it would be and let their knights to
insult customers for making a wrongful buying decision.
"Frank" wrote in message
news:uvom$1BKJHA.5704@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> xfile wrote:
>> Because he, like the majority, could be just a normal user without as
>> much technical knowledge like you? Never thought about that?
>
> Well, why not check the Epson site and his printer site first. Takes less
> than 2 mins and he would have known the manufacturers of that hardware did
> not have Vista drivers available.
>>
>> Then why there is NO warning label for telling consumer to CHECK
>> EVERYTHING before buying and it could be easily implemented if Microsoft
>> thinks it's a RIGHT thing to do?
>>
>> When will this it's-all-others'-fault-attitude can be stopped?
>>
>>
>> "Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
>> news:eyomvXBKJHA.3460@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>Warren DesJardins wrote:
>>>
>>>>We now have a useless scanner (Epson 1200u) thanks to Vista being
>>>>incompatible with it's software. We have no way to print pictures,
>>>>thanks to Vista being incompatible with our HP printer/it's graphic
>>>>software. Thanks to Vista we will now be forced to either purchase new
>>>>perifs, waste a lot of time moving files from the XP machines in the
>>>>back office or do without.
>>>>
>>>>The last two computers for our office will be ordered from Dell and have
>>>>XP installed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>And the reason you charged ahead and purchased Vista without first
>>>checking the compatibility of your legacy devices is? It's hardly
>>>Vista's fault that you neglected the very first rule of purchasing
>>>*ANYTHING*: Does it suit your specific needs?
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>Bruce Chambers
>>>
>>>Help us help you:
>>>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>>
>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375
>>>
>>>They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
>>>safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin
>>>
>>>Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand
>>>Russell
>>>
>>>The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
>>>killed a great many philosophers.
>>>~ Denis Diderot
>>
>>
date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:49:33 -0700
author: xfile
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
> Excuse me, but I don't recall seeing "warning labels' on any OS from any
> software manufacturer ever.
Right, me neither. But it doesn't mean that it's not needed, and we didn't
have as many so-called industry standards either (e.g. USB standards) and
guess why we have more and more? Hint: Make it easier for both user and
product provider.
So, maybe you (or others) can tell me that is Windows targeted at regular
users or techies only (as you and others would think for Linux) and do we,
regular people, need a computer certificate to use it or not?
What kind of skills and knowledge do we need in order to meet your standards
for being a competent customer and user?
Also, spend a few minutes to recall some of arguments that you (and many
others) to combat against Linux advocates, and laugh at their so-called
*useless* operating system.
Are *usability* and *compatibility* not some of the reasons that you and/or
others oftentimes cited for why they have such a *tiny* market share?
But why are you (and others) are trying so hard to push Windows to the same
path?
You don't know that, actually, many of you can be good friends, because you
all share the same mentality except each of you is fighting for different OS
or product, and that mentality is - It's all others' fault, if not the user
must be the 3rd party, that they fail to appreciate our products.
"Frank" wrote in message
news:ej6oSaCKJHA.3460@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> xfile wrote:
>>>Well, why not check the Epson site and his printer site first. Takes less
>>>than 2 mins and he would have known the manufacturers of that hardware
>>>did not have Vista drivers available.
>>
>>
>> That will be one of good ways for suggesting people to do BEFORE
>> purchasing, right?
>>
>> Putting a warning label for things-to-de and -check before making a
>> purchase decision instead misleading how easy it would be and let their
>> knights to insult customers for making a wrongful buying decision.
>
> Excuse me, but I don't recall seeing "warning labels' on any OS from any
> software manufacturer ever.
> XP didn't have them and WinX drivers sure as hell wouldn't work with any
> NT OS.
> You're desperately out of line.
>>
>> "Frank" wrote in message
>> news:uvom$1BKJHA.5704@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>xfile wrote:
>>>
>>>>Because he, like the majority, could be just a normal user without as
>>>>much technical knowledge like you? Never thought about that?
>>>
>>>Well, why not check the Epson site and his printer site first. Takes less
>>>than 2 mins and he would have known the manufacturers of that hardware
>>>did not have Vista drivers available.
>>>
>>>>Then why there is NO warning label for telling consumer to CHECK
>>>>EVERYTHING before buying and it could be easily implemented if Microsoft
>>>>thinks it's a RIGHT thing to do?
>>>>
>>>>When will this it's-all-others'-fault-attitude can be stopped?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
>>>>news:eyomvXBKJHA.3460@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Warren DesJardins wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>We now have a useless scanner (Epson 1200u) thanks to Vista being
>>>>>>incompatible with it's software. We have no way to print pictures,
>>>>>>thanks to Vista being incompatible with our HP printer/it's graphic
>>>>>>software. Thanks to Vista we will now be forced to either purchase new
>>>>>>perifs, waste a lot of time moving files from the XP machines in the
>>>>>>back office or do without.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The last two computers for our office will be ordered from Dell and
>>>>>>have XP installed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>And the reason you charged ahead and purchased Vista without first
>>>>>checking the compatibility of your legacy devices is? It's hardly
>>>>>Vista's fault that you neglected the very first rule of purchasing
>>>>>*ANYTHING*: Does it suit your specific needs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>
>>>>>Bruce Chambers
>>>>>
>>>>>Help us help you:
>>>>>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>>>>
>>>>>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375
>>>>>
>>>>>They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
>>>>>safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin
>>>>>
>>>>>Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand
>>>>>Russell
>>>>>
>>>>>The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
>>>>>killed a great many philosophers.
>>>>>~ Denis Diderot
>>>>
>>>>
>>
date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:25:52 -0700
author: xfile
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
To Warren:
You misunderstand, Vista is not incompatible with the scanner, the scanner
is not compatible with Vista. You have a perfectly good *8-year-old*
scanner that Epson doesn't provide a Vista driver for. Blame Epson, not
Vista. Epson hasn't provided an updated Windows driver for it since 2002,
that's 6 years ago! Even that one gave the warning about not being
certified for XP. 8 years is a long time in computers, I'm surprised a
scanner that old still functions. It's not up to MS to provide drivers for
peripherals, it's up the manufacturers of the peripherals to provide them TO
MS for inclusion in Windows. Epson's support page for it clearly says,
"This product is discontinued".
I suspect the same thing applies to your HP printer, it's an older model
that HP doesn't support anymore. Blame HP, not Vista.
This happens with every new Windows version, while some new drivers are
included, some aren't, and some manufacturers chooses not to provide updated
drivers. I had to sell a Lexmark inkjet printer after my jump from Win98 to
Win2K because LEXMARK didn't provide the driver, and stated they never
would. It was only 2 years old.
You're buying new computers and using 8-year-old peripherals? I suspect
you'll be disappointed in them even if you do get the Dells with XP.
Assuming the capacitors on the Dell motherboards don't pop within the first
year.
"Stan57" wrote in message
news:Stan57.3hrt87@winvistaclub.com...
>
> Warren DesJardins;107585 Wrote:
>> We now have a useless scanner (Epson 1200u) thanks to Vista being
>> incompatible with it's software. We have no way to print pictures,
>> thanks to
>> Vista being incompatible with our HP printer/it's graphic software.
>> Thanks
>> to Vista we will now be forced to either purchase new perifs, waste a
>> lot of
>> time moving files from the XP machines in the back office or do
>> without.
>>
>> The last two computers for our office will be ordered from Dell and
>> have XP
>> installed.
>
>
> Why didn't you use the windows upgrade tool? that would have told you
> if your hardware is compatible and your software also
>
>
> --
> Stan57
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stan57's Profile: http://winvistaclub.com/forum/member.php?userid=600
> View this thread: http://winvistaclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23613
>
date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 19:29:58 -0500
author: Get Real get@clue
Re: No fix for Epson scanner and Vista
"Get Real" <get@clue> wrote in message
news:uD2PSjjNJHA.300@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> To Warren:
>
> You misunderstand, Vista is not incompatible with the scanner, the scanner
> is not compatible with Vista. You have a perfectly good *8-year-old*
> scanner that Epson doesn't provide a Vista driver for. Blame Epson, not
> Vista. Epson hasn't provided an updated Windows driver for it since 2002,
> that's 6 years ago! Even that one gave the warning about not being
> certified for XP. 8 years is a long time in computers, I'm surprised a
> scanner that old still functions. It's not up to MS to provide drivers
> for peripherals, it's up the manufacturers of the peripherals to provide
> them TO MS for inclusion in Windows. Epson's support page for it clearly
> says, "This product is discontinued".
>
> I suspect the same thing applies to your HP printer, it's an older model
> that HP doesn't support anymore. Blame HP, not Vista.
>
> This happens with every new Windows version, while some new drivers are
> included, some aren't, and some manufacturers chooses not to provide
> updated drivers. I had to sell a Lexmark inkjet printer after my jump
> from Win98 to Win2K because LEXMARK didn't provide the driver, and stated
> they never would. It was only 2 years old.
>
> You're buying new computers and using 8-year-old peripherals? I suspect
> you'll be disappointed in them even if you do get the Dells with XP.
> Assuming the capacitors on the Dell motherboards don't pop within the
> first year.
>
>
> "Stan57" wrote in message
> news:Stan57.3hrt87@winvistaclub.com...
>>
>> Warren DesJardins;107585 Wrote:
>>> We now have a useless scanner (Epson 1200u) thanks to Vista being
>>> incompatible with it's software. We have no way to print pictures,
>>> thanks to
>>> Vista being incompatible with our HP printer/it's graphic software.
>>> Thanks
>>> to Vista we will now be forced to either purchase new perifs, waste a
>>> lot of
>>> time moving files from the XP machines in the back office or do
>>> without.
>>>
>>> The last two computers for our office will be ordered from Dell and
>>> have XP
>>> installed.
>>
>>
>> Why didn't you use the windows upgrade tool? that would have told you
>> if your hardware is compatible and your software also
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stan57
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Stan57's Profile: http://winvistaclub.com/forum/member.php?userid=600
>> View this thread: http://winvistaclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23613
>>
>
>
That Warren dude is a little mutt.
Don't help that idiot.
I ain't NEVER in my friggen life read about so many idgets unwilling to part
with $200 in my life !
BUT...they ALL run businesses...LOL.
Sure they do.
And $200 being the end of the road means it's a moron in his house selling
trinkets on eBay.
LOoSer
--
Ens causa sui
Fit caedes omnibus locis
date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:47:03 -0400
author: D. Eth
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