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date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:52:51 -0400,
group: microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
back
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't read?
"Ringmaster" wrote in message
news:3o20b4t7dtdln4hbpsnbdlhuno6tite541@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:02:45 -0700, Frank wrote:
>
>>98 Guy wrote:
>>
>>> If files are copied (drag'n'dropped) to a CD-R while using Vista, are
>>> those files accessible if the CD is put into an XP machine? I've heard
>>> of some first-hand accounts where this seems to be the case.
>>>
>>> Does Vista use a file system on burned CD's or DVD's that XP can't read?
>>>
>>> If so, does Micro$oft provide a driver for XP to be able to read them?
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>No, you have a choice to burn for playing/reading only on that computer
>>or for any computer.
>
> You're a moron Frank. There is NO option to make something only play
> on THAT computer. What you just said above but surely you will try to
> climb up on a stack of bibles and pretend it wasn't what you meant.
>
> Again Frank illustrate why he's a total jackass, retard and putz.
>
> There is an option to use different file systems. One is backward
> compatible with older versions of Windows, the other is not. There is
> no "that" machine which in Frank's senile world implies you could burn
> a CD playable only on the machine that burned it. Frank has lots of
> difficulty writing English in a way you can understand what he
> babbling about. That's because Frank is severely brain damaged, senile
> and suffering from advancing dementia.
>
> Just excuse Frank, the old fool never knows what he babbling about.
> He's just some senile old fool.
Frank is correct!
I've had a number of burners over the years and every one of them gave the
option to burn the discs for general use on all machines or just for use on
the machine you are using to burn the disk.
date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:04:21 -0500
author: freckles
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't read?
Good lord, that sounds life the old leave a UDF disk open or close it after
burn. This has alot to do with your audio equipment and very little to do
with modern OS's. For example you can not use an open UDF disk in your car
stereo to listen to music however, if you close that disk you will have no
problem.
FWIW
Len
"freckles" wrote in message
news:e4idnfbOUYFruy3VnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Ringmaster" wrote in message
> news:3o20b4t7dtdln4hbpsnbdlhuno6tite541@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:02:45 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>
>>>98 Guy wrote:
>>>
>>>> If files are copied (drag'n'dropped) to a CD-R while using Vista, are
>>>> those files accessible if the CD is put into an XP machine? I've heard
>>>> of some first-hand accounts where this seems to be the case.
>>>>
>>>> Does Vista use a file system on burned CD's or DVD's that XP can't
>>>> read?
>>>>
>>>> If so, does Micro$oft provide a driver for XP to be able to read them?
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>No, you have a choice to burn for playing/reading only on that computer
>>>or for any computer.
>>
>> You're a moron Frank. There is NO option to make something only play
>> on THAT computer. What you just said above but surely you will try to
>> climb up on a stack of bibles and pretend it wasn't what you meant.
>>
>> Again Frank illustrate why he's a total jackass, retard and putz.
>>
>> There is an option to use different file systems. One is backward
>> compatible with older versions of Windows, the other is not. There is
>> no "that" machine which in Frank's senile world implies you could burn
>> a CD playable only on the machine that burned it. Frank has lots of
>> difficulty writing English in a way you can understand what he
>> babbling about. That's because Frank is severely brain damaged, senile
>> and suffering from advancing dementia.
>>
>> Just excuse Frank, the old fool never knows what he babbling about.
>> He's just some senile old fool.
>
>
> Frank is correct!
>
> I've had a number of burners over the years and every one of them gave the
> option to burn the discs for general use on all machines or just for use
> on the machine you are using to burn the disk.
>
>
>
>
>
date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:20:13 -0400
author: Len Mattix
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't
read?
Ringmaster wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:02:45 -0700, Frank wrote:
>
>
>>98 Guy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If files are copied (drag'n'dropped) to a CD-R while using Vista, are
>>>those files accessible if the CD is put into an XP machine? I've heard
>>>of some first-hand accounts where this seems to be the case.
>>>
>>>Does Vista use a file system on burned CD's or DVD's that XP can't read?
>>>
>>>If so, does Micro$oft provide a driver for XP to be able to read them?
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>No, you have a choice to burn for playing/reading only on that computer
>>or for any computer.
>
>
> You're a moron Frank. There is NO option to make something only play
> on THAT computer.
You're that stupid? You can't figure out what I was talking about can
you, you fukkin imbecile !
OMG! Well, figures seeing as how you still can't get your one little
install of Vista Business to run properly.
What you just said above but surely you will try to
> climb up on a stack of bibles and pretend it wasn't what you meant.
>
> Again Frank illustrate why he's a total jackass, retard and putz.
>
> There is an option to use different file systems. One is backward
> compatible with older versions of Windows, the other is not. There is
> no "that" machine which in Frank's senile world implies you could burn
> a CD playable only on the machine that burned it. Frank has lots of
> difficulty writing English in a way you can understand what he
> babbling about. That's because Frank is severely brain damaged, senile
> and suffering from advancing dementia.
>
> Just excuse Frank, the old fool never knows what he babbling about.
> He's just some senile old fool.
You do so love to open your big fat pompous stupid mouth and stick both
feet into it don't you mr drunken lying PIG!...LOL!
date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:30:12 -0700
author: fb a
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't
read?
freckles wrote:
> "Ringmaster" wrote in message
> news:3o20b4t7dtdln4hbpsnbdlhuno6tite541@4ax.com...
>
>>On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:02:45 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>
>>
>>>98 Guy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>If files are copied (drag'n'dropped) to a CD-R while using Vista, are
>>>>those files accessible if the CD is put into an XP machine? I've heard
>>>>of some first-hand accounts where this seems to be the case.
>>>>
>>>>Does Vista use a file system on burned CD's or DVD's that XP can't read?
>>>>
>>>>If so, does Micro$oft provide a driver for XP to be able to read them?
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>No, you have a choice to burn for playing/reading only on that computer
>>>or for any computer.
>>
>>You're a moron Frank. There is NO option to make something only play
>>on THAT computer. What you just said above but surely you will try to
>>climb up on a stack of bibles and pretend it wasn't what you meant.
>>
>>Again Frank illustrate why he's a total jackass, retard and putz.
>>
>>There is an option to use different file systems. One is backward
>>compatible with older versions of Windows, the other is not. There is
>>no "that" machine which in Frank's senile world implies you could burn
>>a CD playable only on the machine that burned it. Frank has lots of
>>difficulty writing English in a way you can understand what he
>>babbling about. That's because Frank is severely brain damaged, senile
>>and suffering from advancing dementia.
>>
>>Just excuse Frank, the old fool never knows what he babbling about.
>>He's just some senile old fool.
>
>
>
> Frank is correct!
>
> I've had a number of burners over the years and every one of them gave the
> option to burn the discs for general use on all machines or just for use on
> the machine you are using to burn the disk.
>
ringbastard can't get his one little install of Vista Business to run
properly. He a stupid, incompetent fool.
Pay no attention tho him.
>
>
>
date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:31:33 -0700
author: fb a
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't read?
"fb" <aliasis@sheep-fukkin.babba> schreef in bericht
news:g8pae3$hqf$1@aioe.org...
> Ringmaster wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:02:45 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>
>>
>>>98 Guy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>If files are copied (drag'n'dropped) to a CD-R while using Vista, are
>>>>those files accessible if the CD is put into an XP machine? I've heard
>>>>of some first-hand accounts where this seems to be the case.
>>>>
>>>>Does Vista use a file system on burned CD's or DVD's that XP can't read?
>>>>
>>>>If so, does Micro$oft provide a driver for XP to be able to read them?
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>No, you have a choice to burn for playing/reading only on that computer
>>>or for any computer.
>>
>>
>> You're a moron Frank. There is NO option to make something only play
>> on THAT computer.
>
> You're that stupid? You can't figure out what I was talking about can you,
> you fukkin imbecile !
> OMG! Well, figures seeing as how you still can't get your one little
> install of Vista Business to run properly.
>
> What you just said above but surely you will try to
>> climb up on a stack of bibles and pretend it wasn't what you meant.
>>
>> Again Frank illustrate why he's a total jackass, retard and putz.
>>
>> There is an option to use different file systems. One is backward
>> compatible with older versions of Windows, the other is not. There is
>> no "that" machine which in Frank's senile world implies you could burn
>> a CD playable only on the machine that burned it. Frank has lots of
>> difficulty writing English in a way you can understand what he
>> babbling about. That's because Frank is severely brain damaged, senile
>> and suffering from advancing dementia. Just excuse Frank, the old fool
>> never knows what he babbling about.
>> He's just some senile old fool.
>
> You do so love to open your big fat pompous stupid mouth and stick both
> feet into it don't you mr drunken lying PIG!...LOL!
>
Great comment! Can you do it in a more decent way? Not everyone is a top
crack like you are. You know: making mistakes is human. So we can surely say
that HE is a human being. But you? I doubt it.
date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:36:32 +0200
author: Flight jPUNTvoorbeeld@gmailPUNTcom
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't read?
"freckles" wrote in message
news:e4idnfbOUYFruy3VnZ2dnUVZ_uqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Ringmaster" wrote in message
> news:3o20b4t7dtdln4hbpsnbdlhuno6tite541@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:02:45 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>
>>>98 Guy wrote:
>>>
>>>> If files are copied (drag'n'dropped) to a CD-R while using Vista, are
>>>> those files accessible if the CD is put into an XP machine? I've heard
>>>> of some first-hand accounts where this seems to be the case.
>>>>
>>>> Does Vista use a file system on burned CD's or DVD's that XP can't
>>>> read?
>>>>
>>>> If so, does Micro$oft provide a driver for XP to be able to read them?
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>No, you have a choice to burn for playing/reading only on that computer
>>>or for any computer.
>>
>> You're a moron Frank. There is NO option to make something only play
>> on THAT computer. What you just said above but surely you will try to
>> climb up on a stack of bibles and pretend it wasn't what you meant.
>>
>> Again Frank illustrate why he's a total jackass, retard and putz.
>>
>> There is an option to use different file systems. One is backward
>> compatible with older versions of Windows, the other is not. There is
>> no "that" machine which in Frank's senile world implies you could burn
>> a CD playable only on the machine that burned it. Frank has lots of
>> difficulty writing English in a way you can understand what he
>> babbling about. That's because Frank is severely brain damaged, senile
>> and suffering from advancing dementia.
>>
>> Just excuse Frank, the old fool never knows what he babbling about.
>> He's just some senile old fool.
>
>
> Frank is correct!
>
> I've had a number of burners over the years and every one of them gave the
> option to burn the discs for general use on all machines or just for use
> on the machine you are using to burn the disk.
True and not true. If you don't close the disk, the final directory
information parts would not be written to the disk, thus making it unusable
by other computers as in essence, it is a incomplete burn. The unburned
data being retained on the hard drive for subsequent use.
Problem though, if you reinstalled the OS or the CD drivers, these cached
bits of directory data would get wiped out making the partially burned CDs
useless.
They did this so that you could add more files later as one you made the CD
complete with writing the header/directory information you could no longer
add for files to it using known formats that Windoze can use. That is,
Windows does not have built in method of reading CDs in more than one
partition. You can actually make a CD or DVD that in Linux can be seen in
it's entirety, while on a MS-Windows system you only get part of the data.
Frank is wrong if you consider it needs to be a complete and recoverable
burn.
date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:39:53 GMT
author: Canuck57
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't
read?
Flight wrote:
>
>
> "fb" <aliasis@sheep-fukkin.babba> schreef in bericht
> news:g8pae3$hqf$1@aioe.org...
>
>> Ringmaster wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 23:02:45 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> 98 Guy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If files are copied (drag'n'dropped) to a CD-R while using Vista, are
>>>>> those files accessible if the CD is put into an XP machine? I've
>>>>> heard
>>>>> of some first-hand accounts where this seems to be the case.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does Vista use a file system on burned CD's or DVD's that XP can't
>>>>> read?
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, does Micro$oft provide a driver for XP to be able to read them?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> No, you have a choice to burn for playing/reading only on that
>>>> computer or for any computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You're a moron Frank. There is NO option to make something only play
>>> on THAT computer.
>>
>>
>> You're that stupid? You can't figure out what I was talking about can
>> you, you fukkin imbecile !
>> OMG! Well, figures seeing as how you still can't get your one little
>> install of Vista Business to run properly.
>>
>> What you just said above but surely you will try to
>>
>>> climb up on a stack of bibles and pretend it wasn't what you meant.
>>>
>>> Again Frank illustrate why he's a total jackass, retard and putz.
>>>
>>> There is an option to use different file systems. One is backward
>>> compatible with older versions of Windows, the other is not. There is
>>> no "that" machine which in Frank's senile world implies you could burn
>>> a CD playable only on the machine that burned it. Frank has lots of
>>> difficulty writing English in a way you can understand what he
>>> babbling about. That's because Frank is severely brain damaged, senile
>>> and suffering from advancing dementia. Just excuse Frank, the old
>>> fool never knows what he babbling about.
>>> He's just some senile old fool.
>>
>>
>> You do so love to open your big fat pompous stupid mouth and stick
>> both feet into it don't you mr drunken lying PIG!...LOL!
>>
> Great comment! Can you do it in a more decent way? Not everyone is a top
> crack like you are. You know: making mistakes is human. So we can surely
> say that HE is a human being. But you? I doubt it.
Truth is, he is a PIG!...plain and simple.
date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:44:59 -0700
author: Frank
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't read?
Ringmaster wrote:
> The default is the NEWER file system supported by Vista. You
> should automatically see a window pop up asking if you wish
> to change it to make your CD/DVD more backward compatible.
This page:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070422083715451
is a step-by-step series of screen-shots showing someone copying files
to a CD-r on Vista, and no such warning window comes up:
---------------
Now if I had clicked Next (Volgende), the CD would have been burned
with Microsoft's Live File System format without informing or warning
the user. This is Not Good, in my view, and smells a bit of sneaky
lock-in. Instead, then, I click Show Formatting Options (Opties voor
formatteren weergeven).
The options are clear: the Mastered format is readable on any computer,
the Live File System format only on Windows computers -- and even then,
it depends on the chosen version (via Versie wijzigen) of Live File
System, as the following screen shots show:
All of a sudden, Live File System is called UDF, which is rather
confusing. Is the resulting disk a UDF disk or not? Anyway, I stick with
the default option (UDF 2.01), which should be compatible with Vista and
XP. After I click OK, Vista says it needs to format the disk:
-------------
The format process seems to hang, and he's forced to perform a re-boot.
You can read the rest of the long, sordid effort if you want.
He refers to this web-page:
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/help/2af64e60-60aa-4d79-ab6c-3a5db5806cbe1033.mspx
which says this:
-------------------
The latest version of Windows offers a new format, called Live File
System.
Discs formatted with the Live File System option:
... Are only compatible with Windows XP and later versions of Windows.
----------------
But even that doesn't make any sense because there seems to be a big
difference between UDF 2.5 and 2.01 as far as XP is concerned.
The author makes the point that Micro$haft repeatedly uses their term
"Live File System" for what is otherwise known in the industry as UDF
(Universal Disk Format).
He also says that "Vista clearly steers users away from the universally
readable Mastered format, both by means of default settings that can't
be changed and a warning message."
date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:22:56 -0400
author: 98 Guy
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't read?
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:35:05 -0400, 98 Guy wrote:
>Ringmaster wrote:
>
>> >You still haven't explained if the default burn setting would produce
>> >disks that are readable by XP.
>
>And you STILL haven't said if the default burn setting for Vista would
>produce a disk that is readable by XP.
>
>> You're splitting hairs.
>
>Let's leave aside the clarity (or logic) of the Vista dialog box
>presentation.
>
>Just answer this question:
>
>Does the default burn setting for Vista produce disks that are readable
>by XP?
The best answer you can get is a MAYBE. Again directly from Vista's
own Burn a Disc window.
The default is SET to Live File System and reads:
Live File system - Allows you to add and erase files, like a USB flash
drive. Might not be readable on operating systems before Windows XP.
The optional choice reads:
Mastered - Readable on all computers and some CD/DVD players. Requires
you to write all files at once, and individual files can't be erased
afterwards.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand you not having Vista you don't see this. It further goes
on to provide a link to Vista help which brings up a detailed list of
available choices detailed below. What follows is Microsoft's words
not mine:
Understanding the difference between the Live File System and Mastered
disc formats
If you have burned CDs using Windows XP, you are already familiar with
the Mastered format. The latest version of Windows offers a new
format, called Live File System. Discs that use the Live File System
format are often more convenient because you can copy selected files
immediately and as often as you want, as if the disc were a floppy
disc or USB flash drive. On the other hand, Live File System discs
cant be used in all computers and devices. Use this guide to
understand the difference between Live File System and Mastered discs:
Discs formatted with the Live File System option:
Work like a USB flash drive or floppy disk, meaning you can copy files
to disc immediately without having to burn them.
Are convenient if you want to keep a disc in the burn drive and copy
files whenever the need arises.
Are only compatible with Windows XP and later versions of Windows.
Discs formatted with the Mastered option:
Dont copy files immediately, meaning you need to select the entire
collection of files that you want to copy to the disc, and then burn
them all at once.
Are convenient if you want to burn a large collection of files, such
as a music CD.
Are compatible with older computers and devices such as CD players and
DVD players.
Why are there different versions of the Live File System format?
Each version of the Live File System format is compatible with
different operating systems. Depending on which computers you plan to
use a disc in, you might need to select a different version of Live
File System. If you plan to use your disc on the latest version of
Windows, however, you will never need to change the version of Live
File System you use. If you need to make discs that are compatible
with earlier versions of Windows, use the table below to select the
right Live File System version for your needs:
There's more, I didn't copy.
date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:06:29 -0500
author: Ringmaster
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't read?
A CD that is not closed can be accessed (or closed) by any machine that has
CD mastering capability. There are no bits left over on the hard drive and
reinstalling the OS or CD drivers would not affect the ability to access the
disk and add more data to it, or to close it.
Because it is not closed the directory (actually, the TOC) needs to be
accessed in a special way. However, this also means that the directory can
be rewritten to include both new material and the original files, so it is
possible (at some waste of space) to add data to a mastered CD that has not
been closed. Once it is closed the standard directory (TOC) gets written
and new material cannot be added, but it becomes accessible to any hardware
that can read a mastered CD.
See, for instance:
http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-19
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:dbWrk.209900$gc5.190428@pd7urf2no...
>
> snip <
>
> True and not true. If you don't close the disk, the final directory
> information parts would not be written to the disk, thus making it
> unusable by other computers as in essence, it is a incomplete burn. The
> unburned data being retained on the hard drive for subsequent use.
>
> Problem though, if you reinstalled the OS or the CD drivers, these cached
> bits of directory data would get wiped out making the partially burned CDs
> useless.
>
> They did this so that you could add more files later as one you made the
> CD complete with writing the header/directory information you could no
> longer add for files to it using known formats that Windoze can use. That
> is, Windows does not have built in method of reading CDs in more than one
> partition. You can actually make a CD or DVD that in Linux can be seen in
> it's entirety, while on a MS-Windows system you only get part of the data.
>
> Frank is wrong if you consider it needs to be a complete and recoverable
> burn.
>
date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:05:17 +1000
author: Jeff Richards
Re: Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't read?
Hi,
Yes this is tricky and I have not been able to find much in the way of
useful instructions on it. However, I think I may have figured it out.
If you format the recordable write once disc as "mastered" : ( ISO
format )
dragging or copying files into the disc drive folder copies them onto
the hard drive. Only when you click the burn button are they copied onto
the disc. This has to be done in one go , i.e you can't then add more
files to the disc.
You do not need to "close" a mastered disc - simply eject it and it
should be playable on all computers and cd/dvd players.
If you format a write once recordable disc as "Live File System" (UDF
format ) :
dragging or copying files into the disc folder copies them straight to
the disc ( not to the hard drive and you don't need to click the burn
button ). When you have finished, click the x at the top right of the
disc folder to shut the window, then eject the disc manually . You can
later reinsert it in Vista and read it or continue to add files till
it's full. Athough you can delete files from the disc, it does not
appear to give you that space back, i.e it is a multi -session disc, but
not the same as a rewritable disc.
To make it playable in other computers ( only the ones that relate to
that version of Live File System, obviously ) you need to get Vista to
"close" the disc. Insert the disc, open the disc folder, right click the
dvd drive and select "close session". As far as I can tell, you won't be
able to play it on most standalone cd or dvd drives, however.
As to why there are several versions of this, I haven't yet worked out,
but there must be advantages to the higher numbered versions or they
wouldn't exist.
Also, I haven't yet figured out the sequence for using rewritable
discs.
The above is for copying files - suggest for music or video you use
Media Player or DVD Maker. Ashampoo Burning Studio 2008 is also good and
it's free - when you first run it check "get full product key" which
takes you to their website and they give you a free key.
'www.computeractive.co.uk/burningstudio/index'
(http://www.computeractive.co.uk/burningstudio/index) ( ignore the date
limitation - download still works )
This topic is crying out for a tutorial - any takers?
SIW2
--
SIW2
date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 23:53:51 -0500
author: SIW2
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