Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: intel

Hi there,

I am using Word configured to appear in Leopard´s Spaces. However, sometimes when I click on the Word window, Word jumps into a different window or else the Inspector does. Then sometimes the inspector window goes completely blank, and I have to click it off and open it again. It is happening so often that it is becoming unusable.

Any thoughts for a remedy?

Many thanks!
Gavin

The only remedy is to hope that the next released version of Office is
compatible with Spaces & that Apple doesn't change horses in mid-stream
again:-) Office 2008 is not Spaces-compatible nor should it ever be expected
to be - as I understand it the issue is far too complex to be addressed in
an update.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones 
[MVP] Office:Mac



On 7/8/08 11:57 AM, in article 59b538c2.-1@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"gavinanthony@officeformac.com"  wrote:

> Version: 2008
> Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
> Processor: intel
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I am using Word configured to appear in Leopard´s Spaces. However, sometimes
> when I click on the Word window, Word jumps into a different window or else
> the Inspector does. Then sometimes the inspector window goes completely blank,
> and I have to click it off and open it again. It is happening so often that it
> is becoming unusable.
> 
> Any thoughts for a remedy?
> 
> Many thanks!
> Gavin

A poster here did report better results when he kept the Formatting 
Palette turned off.  That *might* be a partial workaround, depending on 
how you use Word.

CyberTaz wrote:
> The only remedy is to hope that the next released version of Office is
> compatible with Spaces & that Apple doesn't change horses in mid-stream
> again:-) Office 2008 is not Spaces-compatible nor should it ever be expected
> to be - as I understand it the issue is far too complex to be addressed in
> an update.
>
> Regards |:>)
> Bob Jones 
> [MVP] Office:Mac
>
>
>
> On 7/8/08 11:57 AM, in article 59b538c2.-1@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
> "gavinanthony@officeformac.com"  wrote:
>
>   
>> Version: 2008
>> Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
>> Processor: intel
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I am using Word configured to appear in Leopard´s Spaces. However, sometimes
>> when I click on the Word window, Word jumps into a different window or else
>> the Inspector does. Then sometimes the inspector window goes completely blank,
>> and I have to click it off and open it again. It is happening so often that it
>> is becoming unusable.
>>
>> Any thoughts for a remedy?
>>
>> Many thanks!
>> Gavin
>>     
>
>

This makes Office totally unusable for me. I use Spaces a lot and I need the formatting tools visible. I really do not have the time/patience to try to locate on which Space my formatting palette has gone this time every time I switch to some other Space and back to the one having Word.

I guess I have to find some other office solution that is a bit more stable and works with OSX as expected.

Yes.  You will.

It works fine in OS 10.4.  You could roll back to OS 10.4.

On 10/07/08 7:33 PM, in article 59b538c2.2@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"pepelton" <pepelton> wrote:

> 
> 
> This makes Office totally unusable for me. I use Spaces a lot and I need the
> formatting tools visible. I really do not have the time/patience to try to
> locate on which Space my formatting palette has gone this time every time I
> switch to some other Space and back to the one having Word.
> 
> I guess I have to find some other office solution that is a bit more stable
> and works with OSX as expected.

-- 
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group.  Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia.   mailto:john@mcghie.name

Funny... I use a lot of commercial and free software, and Office is the only software that has this issue. You can't possibly expect me to believe the formatting menu in MS Office has some complexity that the floating menus in (for example) Adobe CS3 doesn't, and that makes the difference. I don't believe there's any reason that Office cannot be made to be Spaces compatible.

By the way, before I upgraded, I was using Office 2004 with Spaces, and everything worked fine.

- Chuck

      The only remedy is to hope that the next released version of Office is
      compatible with Spaces & that Apple doesn't change horses in mid-stream
      again:-) Office 2008 is not Spaces-compatible nor should it ever be expected
      to be - as I understand it the issue is far too complex to be addressed
      in an update.





      Regards |:>) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac








      On 7/8/08 11:57 AM, in article 59b538c2.-1@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "gavinanthony@officeformac.com"
      wrote:





      > Version: 2008 > Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) > Processor:
      intel > > Hi there, > > I am using Word configured to appear in Leopard�s
      Spaces. However, sometimes > when I click on the Word window, Word jumps
      into a different window or else > the Inspector does. Then sometimes the
      inspector window goes completely blank, > and I have to click it off and
      open it again. It is happening so often that it > is becoming unusable.
      > > Any thoughts for a remedy? > > Many thanks! > Gavin

Well, gee, Chuck, I don't recall asking you to believe anything, let alone
having any expectations. Nor did I mention anything about the Formatting
Palette being responsible for Office/Spaces incompatibility. In fact, I make
no pretense of knowing why the incompatibility exists because - frankly - I
have no idea and I'm perfectly wiling to admit it. What any of us choose to
"believe" is irrelevant.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones 
[MVP] Office:Mac




On 7/11/08 4:17 PM, in article 59b538c2.4@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Chuck"
<Chuck> wrote:

> Funny... I use a lot of commercial and free software, and Office is the only
> software that has this issue. You can't possibly expect me to believe the
> formatting menu in MS Office has some complexity that the floating menus in
> (for example) Adobe CS3 doesn't, and that makes the difference. I don't
> believe there's any reason that Office cannot be made to be Spaces compatible.
> 
> By the way, before I upgraded, I was using Office 2004 with Spaces, and
> everything worked fine.
> 
> - Chuck
> 
>       The only remedy is to hope that the next released version of Office is
>       compatible with Spaces & that Apple doesn't change horses in mid-stream
>       again:-) Office 2008 is not Spaces-compatible nor should it ever be
> expected
>       to be - as I understand it the issue is far too complex to be addressed
>       in an update.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       Regards |:>) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       On 7/8/08 11:57 AM, in article 59b538c2.-1@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
> "gavinanthony@officeformac.com"
>       wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Version: 2008 > Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) > Processor:
>       intel > > Hi there, > > I am using Word configured to appear in
> Leopard�s
>       Spaces. However, sometimes > when I click on the Word window, Word jumps
>       into a different window or else > the Inspector does. Then sometimes the
>       inspector window goes completely blank, > and I have to click it off and
>       open it again. It is happening so often that it > is becoming unusable.
>>> Any thoughts for a remedy? > > Many thanks! > Gavin
>

Hi Chuck:

I have no 'expectations' as to what you believe.

The more you know about large-scale software development, the more likely
you are to believe that this is a complex structural issue (that has nothing
much to do with the formatting menu per se...)

The less you know about software, the more likely you are to believe that
this is prima facie evidence of boundless incompetence or deathly conspiracy
on the part of Microsoft Corporation.

In fact, the situation has at least as much to do with silly games being
played by Apple Corporation.

So: You can believe whatever you like.  But I'll be a little concerned if
you start talking about black helicopters...

Cheers


On 12/07/08 4:17 AM, in article 59b538c2.4@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Chuck"
<Chuck> wrote:

> Funny... I use a lot of commercial and free software, and Office is the only
> software that has this issue. You can't possibly expect me to believe the
> formatting menu in MS Office has some complexity that the floating menus in
> (for example) Adobe CS3 doesn't, and that makes the difference. I don't
> believe there's any reason that Office cannot be made to be Spaces compatible.
> 
> By the way, before I upgraded, I was using Office 2004 with Spaces, and
> everything worked fine.
> 
> - Chuck
> 
>       The only remedy is to hope that the next released version of Office is
>       compatible with Spaces & that Apple doesn't change horses in mid-stream
>       again:-) Office 2008 is not Spaces-compatible nor should it ever be
> expected
>       to be - as I understand it the issue is far too complex to be addressed
>       in an update.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       Regards |:>) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       On 7/8/08 11:57 AM, in article 59b538c2.-1@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
> "gavinanthony@officeformac.com"
>       wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Version: 2008 > Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) > Processor:
>       intel > > Hi there, > > I am using Word configured to appear in
> Leopard�s
>       Spaces. However, sometimes > when I click on the Word window, Word jumps
>       into a different window or else > the Inspector does. Then sometimes the
>       inspector window goes completely blank, > and I have to click it off and
>       open it again. It is happening so often that it > is becoming unusable.
>>> Any thoughts for a remedy? > > Many thanks! > Gavin
> 

-- 
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group.  Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia.   mailto:john@mcghie.name

Regarding Word 2008's failure to play nice with Leopard's Spaces feature, CyberTaz writes:

"as I understand it the issue is far too complex to be addressed in
an update"

and in another post comments:

"In fact, I make no pretense of knowing why the incompatibility exists because - frankly - I have no idea and I'm perfectly wiling to admit it"

The former suggests an understanding of the situation at some level, albeit potentially rumor or idle MS employee chatter. The latter backs away from such a suggestion.

There seems to be a certain tone coming from two different MVP posters. "the less you know about software..." "... Apple doesn't change horse in mid-stream again..."

Certain facts must be accepted as demonstrably true:

1) Spaces is useful for a number of Leopard users.
2) Word 2008 doesn't work well with Spaces.
3) The overwhelming majority of other software does work, including both simple and very complex applications.
4) Disappointment arises amongst users who find themselves using software that belongs to a tiny minority of non-compatible apps

For myself, I'm writing a book (which presents it's own challenges to Word that updates seem to be tackling) and Spaces is a great help to organizing various screens/apps/information as I review .pdfs, generate illustrations, and email subjects.

I look forward to MS taking care of the Spaces incompatibility and will contact them to express my desire for the fix.

Hi Jay:

Well, I would hesitate to put words in Bob's mouth, but we were both talking
to the software architect (the most senior developer, responsible for
deciding how the software gets built) at Microsoft responsible for Word.

The answer was so complex that I did not fully understand it all either :-)
However, the simplified version is that "Spaces" creates multiple layers on
the desktop.  If your application user interface has only one layer, this is
a no-brainer, you will never notice the change.

The Word user interface has multiple layers and they are each independent.
If any of these layers can end up on any of their layers, great
entertainment is possible.  But it is very difficult to code for, unless you
make an architectural change that says "They have multiple layers and we
have multiple layers.  The foundation of our Application needs a matrix that
tracks their layers against ours so we can manage which of their layers our
layers are displayed on."  That's a simplification:  Office consists of
multiple modules, some of which can appear simultaneously in multiple
applications.  So you get a four-dimensional matrix (five if you include
timing...).  My brain signs off well before then :-)

The architectural decisions for software as complex as Word are made between
two and four years before the product goes on sale.  Once the architecture
is fixed, changing it requires so much work you would not attempt it in less
than two years (in other words, you would wait to produce a new version).

Microsoft found out about Spaces at roughly the same time as the rest of the
world.  They were within months of shipping when the first build containing
spaces was seeded.  Too late!  Next version :-)

So:  The next version of Microsoft Office will be built expecting Spaces and
designed to work with it.  This one is not, and cannot be.

Obviously, I can't speak for Microsoft.  But my expectation, based on
speaking to the people working on the project now, is that Office 14 for Mac
will fully and properly support Spaces.  Office 2008 does not, can not, and
never will.

Massive caveat:  As Bob noted:  "Unless Apple springs another surprise
before Office 14 ships."

Apple needs to learn the same lesson Microsoft struggled so badly with 20
years ago: large-scale software development takes TIME.  Whatever your
operating system does NOW is what will work properly in products shipped in
two years time by other vendors.  And if you keep making your independent
vendors look like idiots, they will soon decide there are other platforms
they could be spending their money on.

Since Microsoft managed to learn the lessons of "stable code base", its
platform has been much much more attractive to other software manufacturers.

Cheers

On 14/07/08 7:49 AM, in article 59b538c2.7@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Jay
Mack " <> wrote:

> Regarding Word 2008's failure to play nice with Leopard's Spaces feature,
> CyberTaz writes:
> 
> "as I understand it the issue is far too complex to be addressed in
> an update"
> 
> and in another post comments:
> 
> "In fact, I make no pretense of knowing why the incompatibility exists because
> - frankly - I have no idea and I'm perfectly wiling to admit it"
> 
> The former suggests an understanding of the situation at some level, albeit
> potentially rumor or idle MS employee chatter. The latter backs away from such
> a suggestion.
> 
> There seems to be a certain tone coming from two different MVP posters. "the
> less you know about software..." "... Apple doesn't change horse in mid-stream
> again..."
> 
> Certain facts must be accepted as demonstrably true:
> 
> 1) Spaces is useful for a number of Leopard users.
> 2) Word 2008 doesn't work well with Spaces.
> 3) The overwhelming majority of other software does work, including both
> simple and very complex applications.
> 4) Disappointment arises amongst users who find themselves using software that
> belongs to a tiny minority of non-compatible apps
> 
> For myself, I'm writing a book (which presents it's own challenges to Word
> that updates seem to be tackling) and Spaces is a great help to organizing
> various screens/apps/information as I review .pdfs, generate illustrations,
> and email subjects.
> 
> I look forward to MS taking care of the Spaces incompatibility and will
> contact them to express my desire for the fix.

-- 
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group.  Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia.   mailto:john@mcghie.name

"The next version of Microsoft Office will be built expecting Spaces and
designed to work with it. This one is not, and cannot be."

That's a definitive statement. In light of your assertion, I think it is Microsoft's responsibility to alert users to the incompatibility and ALL features affected by this incompatibility so that we may decide whether to live with the problems Office 2008 has co-existing with Spaces. Some may choose to live with a few "idiosyncrasies" in Word in order to keep Spaces, others may dump Spaces, but we all need to know EXACTLY to what degree Word and the other Office Suite apps are affected.

Thanks for your reply. I fear that it may not last long here.

jm

Office 2008 incompatibility with Spaces has not been held as any
"close-kept" secret. Office was fully seated in the marketplace prior to the
introduction of Leopard & the advent of the Spaces feature. It was developed
for Tiger - which didn't offer Spaces - and I've seen nothing from MS that
claims Office 2008 to be fully compatible with all aspects of the more
recently designed version of Mac OS. It could be argued even more
legitimately that it's incumbent on Apple to announce that that their new
bells & whistles haven't been designed to accommodate pre-existing software.

Even if MS were to publish the all-inclusive "alert" to which you claim to
be entitled it most likely would be relegated by many users to the same fate
as the Help files - unread & unused.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones 
[MVP] Office:Mac



On 7/14/08 6:33 AM, in article 59b538c2.9@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Jay Mack
" <> wrote:

> "The next version of Microsoft Office will be built expecting Spaces and
> designed to work with it. This one is not, and cannot be."
> 
> That's a definitive statement. In light of your assertion, I think it is
> Microsoft's responsibility to alert users to the incompatibility and ALL
> features affected by this incompatibility so that we may decide whether to
> live with the problems Office 2008 has co-existing with Spaces. Some may
> choose to live with a few "idiosyncrasies" in Word in order to keep Spaces,
> others may dump Spaces, but we all need to know EXACTLY to what degree Word
> and the other Office Suite apps are affected.
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I fear that it may not last long here.
> 
> jm

"Office 2008 incompatibility with Spaces has not been held as any
"close-kept" secret."

Understood. Never stated otherwise. BUT,is a list of issues related to Spaces available? for instance is the scrolling issue I have with Word wherein text of one style disappears underneath other text of another or two lines of text overlay each other a product of using Spaces? I don't know. Are problems with spaces confined to minor UI anomalies and inconveniences or just the wandering window issue? I don't know. I don't really want to spend day after day searching forums to track down whether or not a particular "issue" is related to Spaces or a squashable bug. Is there a comprehensive list of bugs/issues to be resolved in future updates?

Proactive communication is often beneficial to a company. Look at this situation. People buy Office 2008 expecting it to work. Some things don't work, others don't play nice with Leopard, **for whatever reason** be it Apple's fault or MS's fault. It would benefit MS to let users know that there are some minor issues w/Leopard. See here:

 <http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/Office2008/system-requirements.mspx>

System Requirements for
Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac
To run Microsoft® Office 2008 for Mac, your computer must meet the following requirements:
•	Processor: A Mac computer with an Intel, PowerPC G5, or PowerPC G4 (500 MHz or faster) processor
•	Operating System: Mac OS X version 10.4.9 or later

I understand development cycles. My business depends upon dependable software. My laptop is the only Mac out of 15+ running Leopard and I just updated from Tiger last week. We currently run multiple workstations of our "do or die" software on stable versions of Tiger with critical application versions that are 18 months behind. All staff are two major updates behind on Office. How's that for caution? Admittedly, me and my MacBook Pro are the guinea pigs.

jm

I for one am Glad that I haven't switched to OSX.5. And even if I did
I'd see what I could do to turn off spaces. I don't work the way
they envision. so I find the idea behind it fluff.

Kind of like Mozilla doing everything it can to emulate Internet
Explorer in their products. IF I had wanted IE I would have bought a
computer that could run it. I still don't use tabs and unless a future
version only works with tabs I'll continue not.

Jay Mack wrote:
> "The next version of Microsoft Office will be built expecting Spaces
> and designed to work with it. This one is not, and cannot be."
> 
> That's a definitive statement. In light of your assertion, I think it
> is Microsoft's responsibility to alert users to the incompatibility
> and ALL features affected by this incompatibility so that we may
> decide whether to live with the problems Office 2008 has co-existing
> with Spaces. Some may choose to live with a few "idiosyncrasies" in
> Word in order to keep Spaces, others may dump Spaces, but we all need
> to know EXACTLY to what degree Word and the other Office Suite apps
> are affected.
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I fear that it may not last long here.
> 
> jm

-- 
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Martinsville Va 24112   |pjones@kimbanet.com, ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
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<http://www.vpea.org>

I would just like to say that I personally love Spaces. It is the best multiple-desktop implementation that has ever been created on any platform. Using Microsoft's Remote Desktop for Mac and Spaces has enabled me to work on multiple machines with incredible fluidity. It has provided a huge productivity boost for me, and I'm never going back!

The Office 2008 problem is a bit of a drag, if there is any way to get a fix out before the next release of Office that would be great.

Hi Eric -

I'd suggest you use Help> Send Feedback in order to send that message
directly into MacBU's radar field... I'm sure they'd appreciate hearing from
someone with a positive attitude :-)

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones 
[MVP] Office:Mac


On 7/15/08 11:47 AM, in article 59b538c2.13@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Eric
Matthews " <> wrote:

> I would just like to say that I personally love Spaces. It is the best
> multiple-desktop implementation that has ever been created on any platform.
> Using Microsoft's Remote Desktop for Mac and Spaces has enabled me to work on
> multiple machines with incredible fluidity. It has provided a huge
> productivity boost for me, and I'm never going back!
> 
> The Office 2008 problem is a bit of a drag, if there is any way to get a fix
> out before the next release of Office that would be great.

Any thoughts for a remedy?




I'm in email conversation with MS Support at the moment about this issue.

personally, I've found if you click on the border of your MS Word window (the grey area), it will bring it to the foreground and into focus.

This has helped me greatly in my day to day use.

Mike

Hi Jay:

I do not have a "definitive" list of the issues that involve Spaces, sorry.
You could decide to start one, of you wanted to. :-)

Perhaps I should clarify something I have been saying for a while:  I have
said that Office 2008 "cannot" be made to work properly with Spaces.

To be strictly, scientifically, accurate, I SHOULD say:

"Office 2008 cannot be made to work with spaces before the next version of
Office is due, using the time, money, and people that are available."

In other words: while it would be "theoretically possible" to rework the
software, it would take so long and cost so much that it would delay the
next version, remove features from the next version, and cause the Office
product to record a thundering great loss.  Since I am sure you can see how
this may be unattractive to a Corporation whose Board of Directors is
encouraging its staff to make a profit for their shareholders, I think we
can safely say that IT .. IS .. NOT .. GOING .. TO .. HAPPEN :-)

However, before the pedants bury us in "Of course it is possible" let me
hasten to agree: yes, it is possible.  So is winning the lottery.  I think I
have more chance of winning the lottery :-)

However, the architecture of Microsoft Office for Intel is a lot cleaner and
neater than the old Power PC version.  They took the opportunity to do a bit
of cleaning up when they changed code platforms and processor architectures.

So: there is an outside possibility that they may be able to roll BACKWARDS
the work they do on Spaces for the next version of Office, and make it work
in 2008.

If they were to do that, the change would not be available until after the
next version of Office goes on sale.

I don't think that's going to happen either.  But those who wish to clutch
at straws, grab a firm hold of that one :-)

Cheers


On 14/07/08 10:44 PM, in article 59b538c2.11@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Jay
Mack " <> wrote:

> "Office 2008 incompatibility with Spaces has not been held as any
> "close-kept" secret."
> 
> Understood. Never stated otherwise. BUT,is a list of issues related to Spaces
> available? for instance is the scrolling issue I have with Word wherein text
> of one style disappears underneath other text of another or two lines of text
> overlay each other a product of using Spaces? I don't know. Are problems with
> spaces confined to minor UI anomalies and inconveniences or just the wandering
> window issue? I don't know. I don't really want to spend day after day
> searching forums to track down whether or not a particular "issue" is related
> to Spaces or a squashable bug. Is there a comprehensive list of bugs/issues to
> be resolved in future updates?
> 
> Proactive communication is often beneficial to a company. Look at this
> situation. People buy Office 2008 expecting it to work. Some things don't
> work, others don't play nice with Leopard, **for whatever reason** be it
> Apple's fault or MS's fault. It would benefit MS to let users know that there
> are some minor issues w/Leopard. See here:
> 
>  <http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/Office2008/system-requirements.mspx>
> 
> System Requirements for
> Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac
> To run Microsoft® Office 2008 for Mac, your computer must meet the following
> requirements:
> • Processor: A Mac computer with an Intel, PowerPC G5, or PowerPC G4 (500 MHz
> or faster) processor
> • Operating System: Mac OS X version 10.4.9 or later
> 
> I understand development cycles. My business depends upon dependable software.
> My laptop is the only Mac out of 15+ running Leopard and I just updated from
> Tiger last week. We currently run multiple workstations of our "do or die"
> software on stable versions of Tiger with critical application versions that
> are 18 months behind. All staff are two major updates behind on Office. How's
> that for caution? Admittedly, me and my MacBook Pro are the guinea pigs.
> 
> jm

-- 
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group.  Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia.   mailto:john@mcghie.name

OK, well this thread is actually pretty useful, despite a little gratuitous flaming among the participants. To condense the user-useful information: (1) there is a real problem; (2) there will be no fix until the next version of Office arrives.

So I have to make a decision that will affect my entire organization. Do we need Spaces more than we need Office, or alternatively, perhaps, how long are we prepared to live with the flying space issue? If there were some idea (however vague) of how long until the next version, it could help people like me, with million-dollar decisions to make. Are we talking about months, a year, or five years?

And, yes, Spaces is incredibly valuable in our operation, in case you are curious.

wrote:
> So I have to make a decision that will affect my entire organization. Do we need Spaces more than we need Office, or alternatively, perhaps, how long are we prepared to live with the flying space issue? If there were some idea (however vague) of how long until the next version, it could help people like me, with million-dollar decisions to make. Are we talking about months, a year, or five years?
>   

This interview (under "And Now....We Wait") says to expect a 2-3 year 
cycle in the future.
http://www.macworld.com/article/133398/2008/05/griffiths_vba_office.html

Not that a new version guarantees Spaces will work, of course--this 
board sees lots of complaints about bugs persisting across versions.  
But I have high hopes--the MacBU is hiring more people, Office is now 
built in XCode, Apple seems unlikely to dump another fundamental change 
like the Intel transition on developers in the next couple of years....

Daiya Mitchell wrote:
> wrote:
>> So I have to make a decision that will affect my entire organization. 
>> Do we need Spaces more than we need Office, or alternatively, perhaps, 
>> how long are we prepared to live with the flying space issue? If there 
>> were some idea (however vague) of how long until the next version, it 
>> could help people like me, with million-dollar decisions to make. Are 
>> we talking about months, a year, or five years?
>>   
> 
> This interview (under "And Now....We Wait") says to expect a 2-3 year 
> cycle in the future.
> http://www.macworld.com/article/133398/2008/05/griffiths_vba_office.html
> 
> Not that a new version guarantees Spaces will work, of course--this 
> board sees lots of complaints about bugs persisting across versions.  
> But I have high hopes--the MacBU is hiring more people, Office is now 
> built in XCode, Apple seems unlikely to dump another fundamental change 
> like the Intel transition on developers in the next couple of years....
> 

Now that that the revered Master BG has officially retired and taken 
with him all of that angst against Apple and Mac. Maybe we have a better 
chance. let's hope so.
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Given prospects for a fix of this problem in Word 2008, Mr. McGhie's advice in another (now closed) thread about staying one OS version behind might be better applied to applications like Word. I wish I'd stayed with 2004--yeah, I know I can reinstall it (and I probably will) but I paid for 2008 and for some reason thought they got it right this time. Small chance! Are the atrocious screen refresh problems also too complex to address in this version?

Hi Finn:

Well, if I were to take a wild guess, I would say the screen refresh
problems should get fixed in this version.  I have been wrong before :-)

However, there is a chance that they may be a graphics driver issue.  It
might pay to check with the vendor of your graphics card to see if a more
up-to-date driver is available for it.

I am pretty sure that that issue is nowhere near as complex as the Spaces
issue, and that the fixe will not require anywhere near as much work.  It
certainly won't require a re-design like the Spaces one will.

Cheers

On 18/07/08 7:35 AM, in article 59b538c2.20@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Finn"
<Finn> wrote:

> Given prospects for a fix of this problem in Word 2008, Mr. McGhie's advice in
> another (now closed) thread about staying one OS version behind might be
> better applied to applications like Word. I wish I'd stayed with 2004--yeah, I
> know I can reinstall it (and I probably will) but I paid for 2008 and for some
> reason thought they got it right this time. Small chance! Are the atrocious
> screen refresh problems also too complex to address in this version?

-- 
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group.  Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia.   mailto:john@mcghie.name

Microsoft has announced officially in several places that they are now
working on a two to three year release cycle for Office ext.

That would put it in the stores around December 2009.

Work has already begun on it.

In the meantime, dare I suggest that if you were to offer your users the
choice between 27" screens and Spaces, I think I know which one I would pick
:-)

Cheers


On 16/07/08 11:37 PM, in article 59b538c2.17@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "" <>
wrote:

> OK, well this thread is actually pretty useful, despite a little gratuitous
> flaming among the participants. To condense the user-useful information: (1)
> there is a real problem; (2) there will be no fix until the next version of
> Office arrives.
> 
> So I have to make a decision that will affect my entire organization. Do we
> need Spaces more than we need Office, or alternatively, perhaps, how long are
> we prepared to live with the flying space issue? If there were some idea
> (however vague) of how long until the next version, it could help people like
> me, with million-dollar decisions to make. Are we talking about months, a
> year, or five years?
> 
> And, yes, Spaces is incredibly valuable in our operation, in case you are
> curious.

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I give up. I've reinstalled Word 2004 and, with it, full functionality. As before it works flawlessly with Spaces. It must not be as complexly-layered as 2008, but who cares as long it works? Windows don't need to be resized and repositioned whenever they're opened. It also seems more responsive overall. Compared to Word 2008, it feels like 5.1. Sad really.

On 23/7/08 6:07 AM, in article 59b538c2.23@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Finn"
<Finn> wrote:

<snip>
> Compared to Word 2008, it feels like 5.1. Sad really.

<Deep, nostalgic sigh>

Clive Huggan
============

Yep:  That's the one :-)  Single-layered user interface in Word 2004 :-)

(Yes, I know that's not scientifically accurate, but it's close enough....)

Cheers


On 23/07/08 5:37 AM, in article 59b538c2.23@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Finn"
<Finn> wrote:

> I give up. I've reinstalled Word 2004 and, with it, full functionality. As
> before it works flawlessly with Spaces. It must not be as complexly-layered as
> 2008, but who cares as long it works? Windows don't need to be resized and
> repositioned whenever they're opened. It also seems more responsive overall.
> Compared to Word 2008, it feels like 5.1. Sad really.

-- 
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Sydney, Australia.   mailto:john@mcghie.name

Explain the reason for adding multiple layer interface.

Is it just for a pretty face?

I know what your stock answer will be Apple has certain UI Guidelines 
they have set up.

But why comply now MS since MA and Apple have existed have always 
marched to the beat of their own drummer. Why start now.  :-)

Couldn't they get the same look and feel in just one layer?

John McGhie wrote:
> Yep:  That's the one :-)  Single-layered user interface in Word 2004 :-)
> 
> (Yes, I know that's not scientifically accurate, but it's close enough....)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> On 23/07/08 5:37 AM, in article 59b538c2.23@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Finn"
> <Finn> wrote:
> 
>> I give up. I've reinstalled Word 2004 and, with it, full functionality. As
>> before it works flawlessly with Spaces. It must not be as complexly-layered as
>> 2008, but who cares as long it works? Windows don't need to be resized and
>> repositioned whenever they're opened. It also seems more responsive overall.
>> Compared to Word 2008, it feels like 5.1. Sad really.
> 

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Hi Phillip:

Yes, you are correct.

If I understand you correctly, I did say that to them, and I was told "This
is the way Apple says it must be done."

Well:  I don't think Apple wanted it not to work in Spaces, so I think both
companies should put their heads together and fix it.

I am sure it will be fixed next version :-)

Cheers


On 24/07/08 5:00 AM, in article euCYRqP7IHA.3976@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl,
"Phillip Jones"  wrote:

> Explain the reason for adding multiple layer interface.
> 
> Is it just for a pretty face?
> 
> I know what your stock answer will be Apple has certain UI Guidelines
> they have set up.
> 
> But why comply now MS since MA and Apple have existed have always
> marched to the beat of their own drummer. Why start now.  :-)
> 
> Couldn't they get the same look and feel in just one layer?
> 
> John McGhie wrote:
>> Yep:  That's the one :-)  Single-layered user interface in Word 2004 :-)
>> 
>> (Yes, I know that's not scientifically accurate, but it's close enough....)
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> 
>> On 23/07/08 5:37 AM, in article 59b538c2.23@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Finn"
>> <Finn> wrote:
>> 
>>> I give up. I've reinstalled Word 2004 and, with it, full functionality. As
>>> before it works flawlessly with Spaces. It must not be as complexly-layered
>>> as
>>> 2008, but who cares as long it works? Windows don't need to be resized and
>>> repositioned whenever they're opened. It also seems more responsive overall.
>>> Compared to Word 2008, it feels like 5.1. Sad really.
>> 

-- 
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group.  Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia.   mailto:john@mcghie.name

Let us hope so. :-)

John McGhie wrote:
> Hi Phillip:
> 
> Yes, you are correct.
> 
> If I understand you correctly, I did say that to them, and I was told "This
> is the way Apple says it must be done."
> 
> Well:  I don't think Apple wanted it not to work in Spaces, so I think both
> companies should put their heads together and fix it.
> 
> I am sure it will be fixed next version :-)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> On 24/07/08 5:00 AM, in article euCYRqP7IHA.3976@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl,
> "Phillip Jones"  wrote:
> 
>> Explain the reason for adding multiple layer interface.
>> 
>> Is it just for a pretty face?
>> 
>> I know what your stock answer will be Apple has certain UI Guidelines
>> they have set up.
>> 
>> But why comply now MS since MS and Apple have existed have always
>> marched to the beat of their own drummer. Why start now.  :-)
>> 
>> Couldn't they get the same look and feel in just one layer?
>> 
>> John McGhie wrote:
>>> Yep:  That's the one :-)  Single-layered user interface in Word 2004 :-)
>>> 
>>> (Yes, I know that's not scientifically accurate, but it's close enough....)
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 23/07/08 5:37 AM, in article 59b538c2.23@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Finn"
>>> <Finn> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I give up. I've reinstalled Word 2004 and, with it, full functionality. As
>>>> before it works flawlessly with Spaces. It must not be as complexly-layered
>>>> as
>>>> 2008, but who cares as long it works? Windows don't need to be resized and
>>>> repositioned whenever they're opened. It also seems more responsive overall.
>>>> Compared to Word 2008, it feels like 5.1. Sad really.
>>> 
> 

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