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date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 14:57:46 +0200,
group: microsoft.public.hiserver.general
back
Re: Connection failure
Asher
Using XID 0 rather than XID 3 is a step backwards and may be the cause
of trouble, possibly even the trouble you are experiencing. There are
some parameters, for example, the PU statement MAXDATA operand value
which are passed from one link station to another when using XID 3
which need to be specified - and, of course, specified correctly -
when using XID 0.
Chris Mason
On Jun 3, 10:06 am, "Asher Levi" wrote:
> Hello Neil & Stephen,
>
> Thank you very much for your information.
>
> 1.
> I moved to HIS 2006 from HIS 2000.
>
> The main changes were: much more connection per server (53 against 30)
>
> I'm working with dual homing (NFT mode). (I know that SLB mode is
> prohibited)
>
> I'm working only with XID 0 connections. (I used to work also with XID 3
> type).
>
> The event occurred usually once a day.
>
> Usually the event occurred only with one or two connections in a random
> fashion.
>
> Also the there are some days with no problems at all.
>
> I saw some received errors in the network statistic of the network card
>
> (No buffers).
>
> In the Main Frame area the only changes were to change the node type to XID
> type 0.
>
> (No more CPNAME and so on).
>
> As usual the network team didnt saw any problem in the network port
> In conclusion I also suspected that the event connected to network problems
>
> And I will focus on this
>
> Best regards,
>
> Asher Levi..
>
> "Asher Levi" wrote in message
>
> news:%23qsE6fKxIHA.4848@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
>
>
> > Hello all,
>
> > Since I moved to HIS 2006 We suffer occasionally from the 227 event
>
> > FRMR received 0X01
>
> > 01 = invalid N(R) value sent.
>
> > After his event we get the 23 event - connection failure (00AD)
>
> > Then the connection performing disconnect/connect.
>
> > I have 53 connections (DLC 802.2) with connection to fast OSA
>
> > I'm working only with XID type 0 in the connection string
>
> > Does anyone know the reason and the cure for this?
>
> > Thanks'
>
> > Asher Levi
>
> > .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 09:08:06 -0700 (PDT)
author: Chris Mason
Re: Connection failure
Hello Chris
I moved to XID 0 because I dont need anymore APPC/LU6.2(ILU)
In this time I'm checking the network connection side
By the way I also have others HIS with only 2 connections' XID 0 (for
printing)
And I never suffered from the same problem.
So I also think it's connected to the number of the connection (53)
Anyway in case that it's not connected to a network problem I will focus on
The connection type (XID and so on).
best regards
Asher
"Chris Mason" wrote in message
news:1a059b1a-bd4b-4d49-9bd4-7b9a66093a92@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Asher
Using XID 0 rather than XID 3 is a step backwards and may be the cause
of trouble, possibly even the trouble you are experiencing. There are
some parameters, for example, the PU statement MAXDATA operand value
which are passed from one link station to another when using XID 3
which need to be specified - and, of course, specified correctly -
when using XID 0.
Chris Mason
On Jun 3, 10:06 am, "Asher Levi" wrote:
> Hello Neil & Stephen,
>
> Thank you very much for your information.
>
> 1.
> I moved to HIS 2006 from HIS 2000.
>
> The main changes were: much more connection per server (53 against 30)
>
> I'm working with dual homing (NFT mode). (I know that SLB mode is
> prohibited)
>
> I'm working only with XID 0 connections. (I used to work also with XID 3
> type).
>
> The event occurred usually once a day.
>
> Usually the event occurred only with one or two connections in a random
> fashion.
>
> Also the there are some days with no problems at all.
>
> I saw some received errors in the network statistic of the network card
>
> (No buffers).
>
> In the Main Frame area the only changes were to change the node type to
> XID
> type 0.
>
> (No more CPNAME and so on).
>
> As usual the network team didnt saw any problem in the network port
>
> In conclusion I also suspected that the event connected to network
> problems
>
> And I will focus on this
>
> Best regards,
>
> Asher Levi..
>
> "Asher Levi" wrote in message
>
> news:%23qsE6fKxIHA.4848@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
>
>
> > Hello all,
>
> > Since I moved to HIS 2006 We suffer occasionally from the 227 event
>
> > FRMR received 0X01
>
> > 01 = invalid N(R) value sent.
>
> > After his event we get the 23 event - connection failure (00AD)
>
> > Then the connection performing disconnect/connect.
>
> > I have 53 connections (DLC 802.2) with connection to fast OSA
>
> > I'm working only with XID type 0 in the connection string
>
> > Does anyone know the reason and the cure for this?
>
> > Thanks'
>
> > Asher Levi
>
> > .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 09:38:56 +0200
author: Asher Levi
Re: Connection failure
Asher
I made the point about your changing from using XID 3 to XID 3 because
this is definitely a step backward in general. There was only a slight
possibility that this change related to your problem.
It is clear you do not have a good grasp of the difference between and
the significance of XID 0 and XID 3. To remedy this situation, take a
look at Chapter 3 of SNA Formats:
http://www.elink.ibmlink.ibm.com/publications/servlet/pbi.wss?CTY=US&FNC=SRX&PBL=GA27-3136-20
I make this claim based on your comment "(No more CPNAME and so on)".
When you use connections to VTAM over a LAN, you use "switched" as
opposed to "nonswitched" definitions in VTAM. When you use "switched"
definitions, you use PU statements in a Switched Major Node. There has
to be some matching between such a PU statement and an incoming
connection attempt - I'm leaving aside the possibility to use the
ISTEXCCS exit or the DYNPU=YES function[1]. With XID 0, you are
obliged to match on the basis of the "node identification" field of
the XID - which is common to all XID formats. This breaks down into
two parts which are represented in operands of the PU statement as the
IDBLK and IDNUM operands. If you are using XID 0, you must be using
these operands on your PU statement - or if you are not, please let us
all know what you are doing!
When you were using XID 3, you appear to have been using the PU
statement CPNAME operand. Perhaps you were not aware that, having
specified the CPNAME operand, you no longer needed the IDBLK and IDNUM
operands and, indeed, specifying all of them probably led you to
assume that VTAM was imposing excessive definition activity on you, a
reputation VTAM has spent most of its working life - since the bad old
days of the late seventies! - trying to shake off!
As for the "so on", if you examine the fields in the XID 3, you could
see - if you had the necessary education - that a number of the
operands of the PU statement were no longer needed. A number of
seemingly needed parameter matches - matching additional to that
required for identification - evident in the operands of the PU
statement is *removed* by use of the XID 3. Thus there is no "so on".
In changing from XID 3 to XID 0, you may find that some of the 802.2
parameters which were passed automatically in XID 3 now need
explicitly to be specified with XID 0. Clearly in going from XID 3 to
XID 0 you lay yourself open to getting such matches wrong. SNA
designers went to a lot of trouble in creating XID 3 as an enhancement
to XID 0.
I expect that the significance may not be clear from the information
provided by the HIS product and that the HIS documentation is not
clear enough. I participate in this newsgroup in order to "catch" the
VTAM and SNA issues rather than solve problems deep within HIS - about
which I know very little. This XID 0/XID 3 "thing" is very definitely
an SNA issue - and also maybe a VTAM issue - that needs addressing!
However, you seem to have got some sort of wrong impression that XID 3
applies only when using APPC/LU 6.2 in the context of SSCP-independent
LU (ILU) definitions. This is quite wrong. It was with considerable
relief that those who were obliged to create definitions for the very
popular 3174 using only SSCP-dependent LU types 2 and 3 greeted the
advent of the XID 3 and threw out definition activity associated with
XID 0 with glee.
I can't really help you with your basic problem. It seems rather
unlikely that the XID format has anything to do with it. Either you
should stick with XID 0 and make sure you do all the necessary desk
checking with your VTAM counterpart to make sure that all the
necessary parameter matches are there - or you just use XID 3 and use
either the CPNAME operand - preferred - or the IDBLK and IDNUM
operands - but there's no need whatsoever to use both.
Your problem is at the level of the 802.2 protocols. I could guess
that if there is a buffer constraint which somehow extends to the
adapter where the protocol is observed, it could lead to the sort of
problem you describe. I would expect your Microsoft helpers to be of
more use here.
If a buffer problem in the adapter is really to blame, you might like
to relieve the stress - as it were - by operating with a smaller
receive window for the adapter. When I taught this topic I used to
encourage the use of an NCP tool which indicated what the required
window size was for the sort of traffic I was generating in my test
systems over the local centre's LAN. It was interesting that the
required window size was never more than 11 or 12 and so I set my
window size maxima to 20 so that, under normal operating conditions,
the window size was never a constraint on the traffic.
Incidentally, you may decide to specify a receive window for the
adapter of, say, 20. If you use XID 0, you now need to make sure that
the value of the MAXOUT operand of the matching PU statement is 20. If
you use XID 3, you can leave out the MAXOUT operand since the value
you specified for the adapter is conveyed to VTAM in the XID 3 data.
All so, so much easier!
The reason I'm making all this fuss is that I don't want anything in
the archives of the newsgroup which begins to imply that changing from
XID 3 to XID 0 is any way to try to solve problems - of any sort!
Chris Mason
[1] Since you point out you are not using ILU, you cannot be using
DYNPU=YES.
On Jun 5, 9:38 am, "Asher Levi" wrote:
> Hello Chris
>
> I moved to XID 0 because I dont need anymore APPC/LU6.2(ILU)
>
> In this time I'm checking the network connection side
>
> By the way I also have others HIS with only 2 connections' XID 0 (for
> printing)
>
> And I never suffered from the same problem.
>
> So I also think it's connected to the number of the connection (53)
>
> Anyway in case that it's not connected to a network problem I will focus on
>
> The connection type (XID and so on).
>
> best regards
>
> Asher
>
> "Chris Mason" wrote in message
>
> news:1a059b1a-bd4b-4d49-9bd4-7b9a66093a92@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Asher
>
> Using XID 0 rather than XID 3 is a step backwards and may be the cause
> of trouble, possibly even the trouble you are experiencing. There are
> some parameters, for example, the PU statement MAXDATA operand value
> which are passed from one link station to another when using XID 3
> which need to be specified - and, of course, specified correctly -
> when using XID 0.
>
> Chris Mason
>
> On Jun 3, 10:06 am, "Asher Levi" wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hello Neil & Stephen,
>
> > Thank you very much for your information.
>
> > 1.
> > I moved to HIS 2006 from HIS 2000.
>
> > The main changes were: much more connection per server (53 against 30)
>
> > I'm working with dual homing (NFT mode). (I know that SLB mode is
> > prohibited)
>
> > I'm working only with XID 0 connections. (I used to work also with XID 3> > type).
>
> > The event occurred usually once a day.
>
> > Usually the event occurred only with one or two connections in a random
> > fashion.
>
> > Also the there are some days with no problems at all.
>
> > I saw some received errors in the network statistic of the network card
>
> > (No buffers).
>
> > In the Main Frame area the only changes were to change the node type to
> > XID
> > type 0.
>
> > (No more CPNAME and so on).
>
> > As usual the network team didnt saw any problem in the network port
>
> > In conclusion I also suspected that the event connected to network
> > problems
>
> > And I will focus on this
>
> > Best regards,
>
> > Asher Levi..
>
> > "Asher Levi" wrote in message
>
> >news:%23qsE6fKxIHA.4848@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> > > Hello all,
>
> > > Since I moved to HIS 2006 We suffer occasionally from the 227 event
>
> > > FRMR received 0X01
>
> > > 01 = invalid N(R) value sent.
>
> > > After his event we get the 23 event - connection failure (00AD)
>
> > > Then the connection performing disconnect/connect.
>
> > > I have 53 connections (DLC 802.2) with connection to fast OSA
>
> > > I'm working only with XID type 0 in the connection string
>
> > > Does anyone know the reason and the cure for this?
>
> > > Thanks'
>
> > > Asher Levi
>
> > > .- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 11:32:50 -0700 (PDT)
author: Chris Mason
Re: Connection failure
Asher,
Since you mentioned that your NICs are teamed, I'd like to mention that DLC
does not support NIC teaming. We have seen various issues when using NIC
teaming with DLC connections. In some cases, customers never have a problem.
However, we have found that random network related issues have been resolved
when NIC teaming was disabled.
Thanks...
--
Stephen Jackson
Microsoft® HIS Support
Please do not send e-mail directly to this alias. This alias is for
newsgroup purposes only. This posting is provided "AS IS"
with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"Asher Levi" wrote in message
news:eDXzFRtxIHA.2292@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
>
> Hello Neil ,
>
>
>
> I have a 2 Gigabit server adapter ports(HP 373I) in a team connection
> (NFT)
>
> So I believe it can't be a bottleneck on the network card.
>
> When I checked the network statistics I saw some receive errors (no
> buffers)
>
> But my network team didn't find any problem with the network port.
>
> Anyway as you wrote me before I also believe that the problem connected to
> a network problem.
>
> So I disabled one of my network cards in order to stop the team.
>
> I try to check if the network teaming connected to the problem.
>
> I know for sure that if you work with network a teaming with SLB mode you
> suffer from similar problem
>
> I did the change yesterday and since then the error didn't reoccurs
>
> I will update when I have the final results
>
>
>
> best regards,
>
> Asher
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Neil Pike" wrote in message
> news:VA.000065a6.919fe433@compuserve.com...
>> Asher - are the same nic(s) used for admin/users as well as for the dlc
>> connections to the mainframe? If so then it might be a network issue
>> with
>> traffic/congestions/collisions caused by the extra admin access.
>>
>> I'd expect to see network errors on the switch ports and/or switch/nic
>> negotiation being done at half duplex for something like that....
>>
>>> I just notice some very important point (I think.).
>>>
>>> The event 227 and the problem always occurred in the same time when
>>> someone
>>> update the POOLS,WS and so on (update to snacfg.com event 670)
>>>
>>> So when I see the 227 it was always in the same time when the 670 event
>>> appeared.
>>>
>>> By the way I have many 670 events without any problem.
>>>
>>> Does this fact give us some clues?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Asher Levi
>>>
>>> "Asher Levi" wrote in message
>>> news:%23qsE6fKxIHA.4848@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> > Hello all,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Since I moved to HIS 2006 We suffer occasionally from the 227 event
>>> >
>>> > FRMR received 0X01
>>> >
>>> > 01 = invalid N(R) value sent.
>>> >
>>> > After his event we get the 23 event - connection failure (00AD)
>>> >
>>> > Then the connection performing disconnect/connect.
>>> >
>>> > I have 53 connections (DLC 802.2) with connection to fast OSA
>>> >
>>> > I'm working only with XID type 0 in the connection string
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Does anyone know the reason and the cure for this?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thanks'
>>> >
>>> > Asher Levi
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > .
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
>> Neil Pike. Protech Computing Ltd
>> Microsoft SNA/HIS MVP
>> https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=BE66F0D8-9D78-47EF-840A-08E6D8522A2D
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/neilpike
>>
>>
>
>
date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:00:56 -0500
author: Stephen Jackson [MSFT]
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