Hi there,

When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands to the 
menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I clean them up 
(deleted).

In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot each time 
word start/quits...

According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may increase in file 
size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that contains a VBA 
macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a known problem). Link 
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017

My question:

Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or is there 
any other hotfix for this problem available?

If no, how have others dealt with this issue?

TIA and Regards from Switzerland...

tito

If you instead just put the menu and toolbar customizations in a global
template in Word's Startup folder, you can gain the same result without
affecting Normal.dot.

-- 
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://word.mvps.org
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Tito Harris"  wrote in message
news:e%23D40Na2FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Hi there,
>
> When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands to the
> menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I clean them
up
> (deleted).
>
> In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot each time
> word start/quits...
>
> According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may increase in
file
> size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that contains a VBA
> macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a known problem). Link
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017
>
> My question:
>
> Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or is
there
> any other hotfix for this problem available?
>
> If no, how have others dealt with this issue?
>
> TIA and Regards from Switzerland...
>
> tito
>
>

The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It should not be 
making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to change this, you 
should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a different global 
template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't vary depending on 
the other contents of your computer or other factors, they can just be built 
into another global template once and not changed.

Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to normal.dot 
and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on all the time anyway.)
-- 
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
 --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"Tito Harris"  wrote in message 
news:e%23D40Na2FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Hi there,
>
> When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands to the 
> menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I clean them 
> up (deleted).
>
> In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot each time 
> word start/quits...
>
> According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may increase in 
> file size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that contains 
> a VBA macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a known problem). 
> Link http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017
>
> My question:
>
> Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or is 
> there any other hotfix for this problem available?
>
> If no, how have others dealt with this issue?
>
> TIA and Regards from Switzerland...
>
> tito
>
>

Hi there,

Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly enough what is 
going on....

- I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that contains vba 
macros.
- This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
    - Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog because 
we have more than 500 templates in our company)
    - Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
    - replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
- When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and standard 
toolbar

So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a global template 
instead of modifying the normal.dot file.

BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit Word.

Thanks for your continued help, Regards

tito



"Charles Kenyon"  wrote in 
message news:eo43bjb2FHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It should not 
> be making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to change this, 
> you should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a different 
> global template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't vary 
> depending on the other contents of your computer or other factors, they 
> can just be built into another global template once and not changed.
>
> Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to 
> normal.dot and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on all the 
> time anyway.)
> -- 
> Charles Kenyon
>
> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>
> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>
> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
> --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>
> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message 
> news:e%23D40Na2FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Hi there,
>>
>> When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands to the 
>> menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I clean them 
>> up (deleted).
>>
>> In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot each time 
>> word start/quits...
>>
>> According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may increase in 
>> file size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that contains 
>> a VBA macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a known problem). 
>> Link http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017
>>
>> My question:
>>
>> Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or is 
>> there any other hotfix for this problem available?
>>
>> If no, how have others dealt with this issue?
>>
>> TIA and Regards from Switzerland...
>>
>> tito
>>
>>
>
>

Your global.dot should have the changes you mention done once, with the 
customization context being the global template.

The changes should be in place, then, each time the template is loaded. (It 
is loaded when it is in the Startup folder.)

It does not make any changes to the normal.dot file at all.

There are two reasons I know of for making changes each time you load/unload 
the file using code:
(1) The changes are different each time you load the file because they take 
into account outside events or variables - that is, they are dynamic 
changes.
(2) You have some other Add-In that is messing with your changes after the 
file is loaded and you can't figure out how to block this.

Otherwise, just make your changes once, manually or using code, and leave 
them alone. I have over 15 global .dot files loaded in Word, most of which 
make a particular change to the interface. They work together quite well. 
None of them makes the changes using code.
-- 
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
 --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"Tito Harris"  wrote in message 
news:uB5Wzir2FHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Hi there,
>
> Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly enough what 
> is going on....
>
> - I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that contains vba 
> macros.
> - This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
>    - Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog because 
> we have more than 500 templates in our company)
>    - Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
>    - replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
> - When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and standard 
> toolbar
>
> So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a global 
> template instead of modifying the normal.dot file.
>
> BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit Word.
>
> Thanks for your continued help, Regards
>
> tito
>
>
>
> "Charles Kenyon"  wrote in 
> message news:eo43bjb2FHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It should not 
>> be making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to change this, 
>> you should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a different 
>> global template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't vary 
>> depending on the other contents of your computer or other factors, they 
>> can just be built into another global template once and not changed.
>>
>> Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to 
>> normal.dot and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on all the 
>> time anyway.)
>> -- 
>> Charles Kenyon
>>
>> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>>
>> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
>> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>>
>> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>> --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>>
>> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message 
>> news:e%23D40Na2FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands to the 
>>> menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I clean 
>>> them up (deleted).
>>>
>>> In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot each 
>>> time word start/quits...
>>>
>>> According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may increase in 
>>> file size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that 
>>> contains a VBA macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a known 
>>> problem). Link 
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017
>>>
>>> My question:
>>>
>>> Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or is 
>>> there any other hotfix for this problem available?
>>>
>>> If no, how have others dealt with this issue?
>>>
>>> TIA and Regards from Switzerland...
>>>
>>> tito
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

The issue here is the use of the VBA Commandbar item, it does not matter 
where the code lives as long as it is used within a global template, the bug 
is within word where it automatically detects a change in the Normal.dot when 
in reality none exist. The main problem that was been worked around by 
programactically creating and then deleting the menu items is the abnormality 
of the word logic that instead of replacing the same named instance of a 
commandbar upon recreation word creatates another one and therefore it would 
multiply infinitum. The issue here is that Microsoft needs to seriously 
address this issue and resolve the problem. So the question to you guys up at 
Microsoft is when can we expect a fix?

"Charles Kenyon" wrote:

> Your global.dot should have the changes you mention done once, with the 
> customization context being the global template.
> 
> The changes should be in place, then, each time the template is loaded. (It 
> is loaded when it is in the Startup folder.)
> 
> It does not make any changes to the normal.dot file at all.
> 
> There are two reasons I know of for making changes each time you load/unload 
> the file using code:
> (1) The changes are different each time you load the file because they take 
> into account outside events or variables - that is, they are dynamic 
> changes.
> (2) You have some other Add-In that is messing with your changes after the 
> file is loaded and you can't figure out how to block this.
> 
> Otherwise, just make your changes once, manually or using code, and leave 
> them alone. I have over 15 global .dot files loaded in Word, most of which 
> make a particular change to the interface. They work together quite well. 
> None of them makes the changes using code.
> -- 
> Charles Kenyon
> 
> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> 
> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> 
> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> 
> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message 
> news:uB5Wzir2FHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly enough what 
> > is going on....
> >
> > - I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that contains vba 
> > macros.
> > - This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
> >    - Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog because 
> > we have more than 500 templates in our company)
> >    - Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
> >    - replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
> > - When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and standard 
> > toolbar
> >
> > So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a global 
> > template instead of modifying the normal.dot file.
> >
> > BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit Word.
> >
> > Thanks for your continued help, Regards
> >
> > tito
> >
> >
> >
> > "Charles Kenyon"  wrote in 
> > message news:eo43bjb2FHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It should not 
> >> be making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to change this, 
> >> you should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a different 
> >> global template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't vary 
> >> depending on the other contents of your computer or other factors, they 
> >> can just be built into another global template once and not changed.
> >>
> >> Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to 
> >> normal.dot and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on all the 
> >> time anyway.)
> >> -- 
> >> Charles Kenyon
> >>
> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> >>
> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> >>
> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
> >> --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> >>
> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message 
> >> news:e%23D40Na2FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >>> Hi there,
> >>>
> >>> When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands to the 
> >>> menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I clean 
> >>> them up (deleted).
> >>>
> >>> In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot each 
> >>> time word start/quits...
> >>>
> >>> According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may increase in 
> >>> file size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that 
> >>> contains a VBA macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a known 
> >>> problem). Link 
> >>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017
> >>>
> >>> My question:
> >>>
> >>> Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or is 
> >>> there any other hotfix for this problem available?
> >>>
> >>> If no, how have others dealt with this issue?
> >>>
> >>> TIA and Regards from Switzerland...
> >>>
> >>> tito
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 
> 
> 
>

Do you meet one of the two reasons I gave for making changes every time? If 
not but there is another one that I missed (very possible) please illuminate 
me.

I'm not aware of the bug you mention although it surprises me.
-- 
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
 --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"Ray Hernandez" <Ray Hernandez@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:CB34B500-1843-46FC-8F85-EDB0EB7E4097@microsoft.com...
> The issue here is the use of the VBA Commandbar item, it does not matter
> where the code lives as long as it is used within a global template, the 
> bug
> is within word where it automatically detects a change in the Normal.dot 
> when
> in reality none exist. The main problem that was been worked around by
> programactically creating and then deleting the menu items is the 
> abnormality
> of the word logic that instead of replacing the same named instance of a
> commandbar upon recreation word creatates another one and therefore it 
> would
> multiply infinitum. The issue here is that Microsoft needs to seriously
> address this issue and resolve the problem. So the question to you guys up 
> at
> Microsoft is when can we expect a fix?
>
> "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
>
>> Your global.dot should have the changes you mention done once, with the
>> customization context being the global template.
>>
>> The changes should be in place, then, each time the template is loaded. 
>> (It
>> is loaded when it is in the Startup folder.)
>>
>> It does not make any changes to the normal.dot file at all.
>>
>> There are two reasons I know of for making changes each time you 
>> load/unload
>> the file using code:
>> (1) The changes are different each time you load the file because they 
>> take
>> into account outside events or variables - that is, they are dynamic
>> changes.
>> (2) You have some other Add-In that is messing with your changes after 
>> the
>> file is loaded and you can't figure out how to block this.
>>
>> Otherwise, just make your changes once, manually or using code, and leave
>> them alone. I have over 15 global .dot files loaded in Word, most of 
>> which
>> make a particular change to the interface. They work together quite well.
>> None of them makes the changes using code.
>> -- 
>> Charles Kenyon
>>
>> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>>
>> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
>> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>>
>> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>>
>> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
>> news:uB5Wzir2FHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> > Hi there,
>> >
>> > Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly enough 
>> > what
>> > is going on....
>> >
>> > - I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that contains vba
>> > macros.
>> > - This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
>> >    - Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog 
>> > because
>> > we have more than 500 templates in our company)
>> >    - Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
>> >    - replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
>> > - When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and 
>> > standard
>> > toolbar
>> >
>> > So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a global
>> > template instead of modifying the normal.dot file.
>> >
>> > BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit Word.
>> >
>> > Thanks for your continued help, Regards
>> >
>> > tito
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "Charles Kenyon"  wrote in
>> > message news:eo43bjb2FHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> >> The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It should 
>> >> not
>> >> be making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to change 
>> >> this,
>> >> you should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a different
>> >> global template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't vary
>> >> depending on the other contents of your computer or other factors, 
>> >> they
>> >> can just be built into another global template once and not changed.
>> >>
>> >> Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to
>> >> normal.dot and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on all 
>> >> the
>> >> time anyway.)
>> >> -- 
>> >> Charles Kenyon
>> >>
>> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>> >>
>> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
>> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>> >>
>> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>> >> --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>> >>
>> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
>> >> news:e%23D40Na2FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> >>> Hi there,
>> >>>
>> >>> When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands to 
>> >>> the
>> >>> menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I clean
>> >>> them up (deleted).
>> >>>
>> >>> In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot each
>> >>> time word start/quits...
>> >>>
>> >>> According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may increase 
>> >>> in
>> >>> file size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that
>> >>> contains a VBA macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a 
>> >>> known
>> >>> problem). Link
>> >>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017
>> >>>
>> >>> My question:
>> >>>
>> >>> Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or is
>> >>> there any other hotfix for this problem available?
>> >>>
>> >>> If no, how have others dealt with this issue?
>> >>>
>> >>> TIA and Regards from Switzerland...
>> >>>
>> >>> tito
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>

The reason to code the menu customizations in this matter is that they are 
easier to maintain and to propagate thru the entire network. The 
customization is done to words toolbar. If you were to manually make those 
changes as you suggested and those changes are stored within normal.dot then 
when a modification is propagated normal.dot would be replaced and any 
customization by the user would be lost. We have tried several workaround 
fixes and the best one that seems to resolve the issue of the ever expanding 
normal.dot was to set the normal.dot already save to true, but the issue 
there was that any user customizations would not be saved as well.

As to this bug surprising you, it surprised as well, Microsoft has 
acknowledged it in KB873017.

As I previously mentioned the reason I believe that this VBA command is not 
working properly is an Architectural issue in that if you create an object 
with the same name it should overwrite a previously created object of that 
same name, akin to explorer overwriting a file that you are copying with the 
same name to a given folder. And therefore it would not force us to implement 
the workaround of having to create and delete commandbars. The reason that, 
that was a workaround was that unless you delete the created commandbar when 
exiting Word, every time Word starts up and executes the global template 
containing the VBA code that creates the menu items it creates a new one and 
the previous one is still there as well.

"Charles Kenyon" wrote:

> Do you meet one of the two reasons I gave for making changes every time? If 
> not but there is another one that I missed (very possible) please illuminate 
> me.
> 
> I'm not aware of the bug you mention although it surprises me.
> -- 
> Charles Kenyon
> 
> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> 
> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> 
> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> 
> "Ray Hernandez" <Ray Hernandez@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
> news:CB34B500-1843-46FC-8F85-EDB0EB7E4097@microsoft.com...
> > The issue here is the use of the VBA Commandbar item, it does not matter
> > where the code lives as long as it is used within a global template, the 
> > bug
> > is within word where it automatically detects a change in the Normal.dot 
> > when
> > in reality none exist. The main problem that was been worked around by
> > programactically creating and then deleting the menu items is the 
> > abnormality
> > of the word logic that instead of replacing the same named instance of a
> > commandbar upon recreation word creatates another one and therefore it 
> > would
> > multiply infinitum. The issue here is that Microsoft needs to seriously
> > address this issue and resolve the problem. So the question to you guys up 
> > at
> > Microsoft is when can we expect a fix?
> >
> > "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
> >
> >> Your global.dot should have the changes you mention done once, with the
> >> customization context being the global template.
> >>
> >> The changes should be in place, then, each time the template is loaded. 
> >> (It
> >> is loaded when it is in the Startup folder.)
> >>
> >> It does not make any changes to the normal.dot file at all.
> >>
> >> There are two reasons I know of for making changes each time you 
> >> load/unload
> >> the file using code:
> >> (1) The changes are different each time you load the file because they 
> >> take
> >> into account outside events or variables - that is, they are dynamic
> >> changes.
> >> (2) You have some other Add-In that is messing with your changes after 
> >> the
> >> file is loaded and you can't figure out how to block this.
> >>
> >> Otherwise, just make your changes once, manually or using code, and leave
> >> them alone. I have over 15 global .dot files loaded in Word, most of 
> >> which
> >> make a particular change to the interface. They work together quite well.
> >> None of them makes the changes using code.
> >> -- 
> >> Charles Kenyon
> >>
> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> >>
> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> >>
> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
> >>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> >>
> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
> >> news:uB5Wzir2FHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> >> > Hi there,
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly enough 
> >> > what
> >> > is going on....
> >> >
> >> > - I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that contains vba
> >> > macros.
> >> > - This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
> >> >    - Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog 
> >> > because
> >> > we have more than 500 templates in our company)
> >> >    - Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
> >> >    - replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
> >> > - When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and 
> >> > standard
> >> > toolbar
> >> >
> >> > So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a global
> >> > template instead of modifying the normal.dot file.
> >> >
> >> > BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit Word.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for your continued help, Regards
> >> >
> >> > tito
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Charles Kenyon"  wrote in
> >> > message news:eo43bjb2FHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> >> The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It should 
> >> >> not
> >> >> be making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to change 
> >> >> this,
> >> >> you should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a different
> >> >> global template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't vary
> >> >> depending on the other contents of your computer or other factors, 
> >> >> they
> >> >> can just be built into another global template once and not changed.
> >> >>
> >> >> Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to
> >> >> normal.dot and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on all 
> >> >> the
> >> >> time anyway.)
> >> >> -- 
> >> >> Charles Kenyon
> >> >>
> >> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> >> >>
> >> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> >> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> >> >>
> >> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
> >> >> --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> >> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> >> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> >> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
> >> >> news:e%23D40Na2FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >> >>> Hi there,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands to 
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I clean
> >> >>> them up (deleted).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot each
> >> >>> time word start/quits...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may increase 
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> file size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that
> >> >>> contains a VBA macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a 
> >> >>> known
> >> >>> problem). Link
> >> >>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017
> >> >>>
> >> >>> My question:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or is
> >> >>> there any other hotfix for this problem available?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If no, how have others dealt with this issue?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> TIA and Regards from Switzerland...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> tito
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> 
> 
>

You can put your changes in some other global template (without using code 
or using the code only once to create the change). Once the change is made 
and you save your global, it sticks. That is, it does not need to be redone 
each time. You propogate that template to go into the user's startup folder 
(a separate location for each user). You change the user login script to 
update your template upon login so any changes can be made in one location 
and will automatically propogate each time a person logs in.

See http://addbalance.com/word/movetotemplate.htm for step-by-step 
instructions on moving / sharing / copying / backing-up customizations 
including AutoText, AutoCorrect, keyboard assignments, toolbars, macros, 
etc.

The way you are doing this now, each time your user starts his/her computer 
normal.dot is being altered. Since there are other ways that normal.dot gets 
altered by the user during the course of regular use (i.e. AutoText, styles) 
your changes would be saved whenever one of the user alterations is saved. 
Thus the template bloat.
-- 
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of 
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
 --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"Ray Hernandez"  wrote in message 
news:55BA3B0B-5485-4DB4-BC9A-9C13E776DF56@microsoft.com...
> The reason to code the menu customizations in this matter is that they are
> easier to maintain and to propagate thru the entire network. The
> customization is done to words toolbar. If you were to manually make those
> changes as you suggested and those changes are stored within normal.dot 
> then
> when a modification is propagated normal.dot would be replaced and any
> customization by the user would be lost. We have tried several workaround
> fixes and the best one that seems to resolve the issue of the ever 
> expanding
> normal.dot was to set the normal.dot already save to true, but the issue
> there was that any user customizations would not be saved as well.
>
> As to this bug surprising you, it surprised as well, Microsoft has
> acknowledged it in KB873017.
>
> As I previously mentioned the reason I believe that this VBA command is 
> not
> working properly is an Architectural issue in that if you create an object
> with the same name it should overwrite a previously created object of that
> same name, akin to explorer overwriting a file that you are copying with 
> the
> same name to a given folder. And therefore it would not force us to 
> implement
> the workaround of having to create and delete commandbars. The reason 
> that,
> that was a workaround was that unless you delete the created commandbar 
> when
> exiting Word, every time Word starts up and executes the global template
> containing the VBA code that creates the menu items it creates a new one 
> and
> the previous one is still there as well.
>
> "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
>
>> Do you meet one of the two reasons I gave for making changes every time? 
>> If
>> not but there is another one that I missed (very possible) please 
>> illuminate
>> me.
>>
>> I'm not aware of the bug you mention although it surprises me.
>> -- 
>> Charles Kenyon
>>
>> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>>
>> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
>> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>>
>> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>>
>> "Ray Hernandez" <Ray Hernandez@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in 
>> message
>> news:CB34B500-1843-46FC-8F85-EDB0EB7E4097@microsoft.com...
>> > The issue here is the use of the VBA Commandbar item, it does not 
>> > matter
>> > where the code lives as long as it is used within a global template, 
>> > the
>> > bug
>> > is within word where it automatically detects a change in the 
>> > Normal.dot
>> > when
>> > in reality none exist. The main problem that was been worked around by
>> > programactically creating and then deleting the menu items is the
>> > abnormality
>> > of the word logic that instead of replacing the same named instance of 
>> > a
>> > commandbar upon recreation word creatates another one and therefore it
>> > would
>> > multiply infinitum. The issue here is that Microsoft needs to seriously
>> > address this issue and resolve the problem. So the question to you guys 
>> > up
>> > at
>> > Microsoft is when can we expect a fix?
>> >
>> > "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Your global.dot should have the changes you mention done once, with 
>> >> the
>> >> customization context being the global template.
>> >>
>> >> The changes should be in place, then, each time the template is 
>> >> loaded.
>> >> (It
>> >> is loaded when it is in the Startup folder.)
>> >>
>> >> It does not make any changes to the normal.dot file at all.
>> >>
>> >> There are two reasons I know of for making changes each time you
>> >> load/unload
>> >> the file using code:
>> >> (1) The changes are different each time you load the file because they
>> >> take
>> >> into account outside events or variables - that is, they are dynamic
>> >> changes.
>> >> (2) You have some other Add-In that is messing with your changes after
>> >> the
>> >> file is loaded and you can't figure out how to block this.
>> >>
>> >> Otherwise, just make your changes once, manually or using code, and 
>> >> leave
>> >> them alone. I have over 15 global .dot files loaded in Word, most of
>> >> which
>> >> make a particular change to the interface. They work together quite 
>> >> well.
>> >> None of them makes the changes using code.
>> >> -- 
>> >> Charles Kenyon
>> >>
>> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>> >>
>> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
>> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>> >>
>> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>> >>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>> >>
>> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
>> >> news:uB5Wzir2FHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> >> > Hi there,
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly enough
>> >> > what
>> >> > is going on....
>> >> >
>> >> > - I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that contains 
>> >> > vba
>> >> > macros.
>> >> > - This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
>> >> >    - Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog
>> >> > because
>> >> > we have more than 500 templates in our company)
>> >> >    - Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
>> >> >    - replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
>> >> > - When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and
>> >> > standard
>> >> > toolbar
>> >> >
>> >> > So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a global
>> >> > template instead of modifying the normal.dot file.
>> >> >
>> >> > BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit Word.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for your continued help, Regards
>> >> >
>> >> > tito
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "Charles Kenyon"  wrote 
>> >> > in
>> >> > message news:eo43bjb2FHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> >> >> The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It 
>> >> >> should
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> be making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to change
>> >> >> this,
>> >> >> you should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a 
>> >> >> different
>> >> >> global template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't 
>> >> >> vary
>> >> >> depending on the other contents of your computer or other factors,
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> can just be built into another global template once and not 
>> >> >> changed.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to
>> >> >> normal.dot and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on all
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> time anyway.)
>> >> >> -- 
>> >> >> Charles Kenyon
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version 
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>> >> >>
>> >> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>> >> >> --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> >> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> >> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> >> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
>> >> >> news:e%23D40Na2FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> >> >>> Hi there,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands 
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I 
>> >> >>> clean
>> >> >>> them up (deleted).
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot 
>> >> >>> each
>> >> >>> time word start/quits...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may 
>> >> >>> increase
>> >> >>> in
>> >> >>> file size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that
>> >> >>> contains a VBA macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a
>> >> >>> known
>> >> >>> problem). Link
>> >> >>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> My question:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or 
>> >> >>> is
>> >> >>> there any other hotfix for this problem available?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> If no, how have others dealt with this issue?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> TIA and Regards from Switzerland...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> tito
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>

Charles,

The modification involves the Word Toolbar and not a user defined/created 
Toolbar and therefore since the defs for that toolbar are been maintained in 
normal.dot same problems. 

I do not know how to clarify the issue of why we use coding for creating 
menus and replacing built in menu commands with our own functionality other 
than to say to you that things change over time and we find it a lot easier 
to modify the code than to use the toolbar customization which is cumbersome 
at best. Perhaps menus and toolbars that you build never change, are not part 
of the Word built-in toolbars and therefore are basically static over time 
and that is why that methodology works for you, but it does not work for us.

Bottom line if the functionality exists within the product it should work as 
it is supposed too.

"Charles Kenyon" wrote:

> You can put your changes in some other global template (without using code 
> or using the code only once to create the change). Once the change is made 
> and you save your global, it sticks. That is, it does not need to be redone 
> each time. You propogate that template to go into the user's startup folder 
> (a separate location for each user). You change the user login script to 
> update your template upon login so any changes can be made in one location 
> and will automatically propogate each time a person logs in.
> 
> See http://addbalance.com/word/movetotemplate.htm for step-by-step 
> instructions on moving / sharing / copying / backing-up customizations 
> including AutoText, AutoCorrect, keyboard assignments, toolbars, macros, 
> etc.
> 
> The way you are doing this now, each time your user starts his/her computer 
> normal.dot is being altered. Since there are other ways that normal.dot gets 
> altered by the user during the course of regular use (i.e. AutoText, styles) 
> your changes would be saved whenever one of the user alterations is saved. 
> Thus the template bloat.
> -- 
> Charles Kenyon
> 
> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> 
> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of 
> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> 
> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> 
> "Ray Hernandez"  wrote in message 
> news:55BA3B0B-5485-4DB4-BC9A-9C13E776DF56@microsoft.com...
> > The reason to code the menu customizations in this matter is that they are
> > easier to maintain and to propagate thru the entire network. The
> > customization is done to words toolbar. If you were to manually make those
> > changes as you suggested and those changes are stored within normal.dot 
> > then
> > when a modification is propagated normal.dot would be replaced and any
> > customization by the user would be lost. We have tried several workaround
> > fixes and the best one that seems to resolve the issue of the ever 
> > expanding
> > normal.dot was to set the normal.dot already save to true, but the issue
> > there was that any user customizations would not be saved as well.
> >
> > As to this bug surprising you, it surprised as well, Microsoft has
> > acknowledged it in KB873017.
> >
> > As I previously mentioned the reason I believe that this VBA command is 
> > not
> > working properly is an Architectural issue in that if you create an object
> > with the same name it should overwrite a previously created object of that
> > same name, akin to explorer overwriting a file that you are copying with 
> > the
> > same name to a given folder. And therefore it would not force us to 
> > implement
> > the workaround of having to create and delete commandbars. The reason 
> > that,
> > that was a workaround was that unless you delete the created commandbar 
> > when
> > exiting Word, every time Word starts up and executes the global template
> > containing the VBA code that creates the menu items it creates a new one 
> > and
> > the previous one is still there as well.
> >
> > "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
> >
> >> Do you meet one of the two reasons I gave for making changes every time? 
> >> If
> >> not but there is another one that I missed (very possible) please 
> >> illuminate
> >> me.
> >>
> >> I'm not aware of the bug you mention although it surprises me.
> >> -- 
> >> Charles Kenyon
> >>
> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> >>
> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> >>
> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
> >>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> >>
> >> "Ray Hernandez" <Ray Hernandez@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in 
> >> message
> >> news:CB34B500-1843-46FC-8F85-EDB0EB7E4097@microsoft.com...
> >> > The issue here is the use of the VBA Commandbar item, it does not 
> >> > matter
> >> > where the code lives as long as it is used within a global template, 
> >> > the
> >> > bug
> >> > is within word where it automatically detects a change in the 
> >> > Normal.dot
> >> > when
> >> > in reality none exist. The main problem that was been worked around by
> >> > programactically creating and then deleting the menu items is the
> >> > abnormality
> >> > of the word logic that instead of replacing the same named instance of 
> >> > a
> >> > commandbar upon recreation word creatates another one and therefore it
> >> > would
> >> > multiply infinitum. The issue here is that Microsoft needs to seriously
> >> > address this issue and resolve the problem. So the question to you guys 
> >> > up
> >> > at
> >> > Microsoft is when can we expect a fix?
> >> >
> >> > "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Your global.dot should have the changes you mention done once, with 
> >> >> the
> >> >> customization context being the global template.
> >> >>
> >> >> The changes should be in place, then, each time the template is 
> >> >> loaded.
> >> >> (It
> >> >> is loaded when it is in the Startup folder.)
> >> >>
> >> >> It does not make any changes to the normal.dot file at all.
> >> >>
> >> >> There are two reasons I know of for making changes each time you
> >> >> load/unload
> >> >> the file using code:
> >> >> (1) The changes are different each time you load the file because they
> >> >> take
> >> >> into account outside events or variables - that is, they are dynamic
> >> >> changes.
> >> >> (2) You have some other Add-In that is messing with your changes after
> >> >> the
> >> >> file is loaded and you can't figure out how to block this.
> >> >>
> >> >> Otherwise, just make your changes once, manually or using code, and 
> >> >> leave
> >> >> them alone. I have over 15 global .dot files loaded in Word, most of
> >> >> which
> >> >> make a particular change to the interface. They work together quite 
> >> >> well.
> >> >> None of them makes the changes using code.
> >> >> -- 
> >> >> Charles Kenyon
> >> >>
> >> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> >> >>
> >> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> >> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> >> >>
> >> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
> >> >>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> >> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> >> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> >> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
> >> >> news:uB5Wzir2FHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> >> >> > Hi there,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly enough
> >> >> > what
> >> >> > is going on....
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that contains 
> >> >> > vba
> >> >> > macros.
> >> >> > - This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
> >> >> >    - Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog
> >> >> > because
> >> >> > we have more than 500 templates in our company)
> >> >> >    - Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
> >> >> >    - replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
> >> >> > - When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and
> >> >> > standard
> >> >> > toolbar
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a global
> >> >> > template instead of modifying the normal.dot file.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit Word.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks for your continued help, Regards
> >> >> >
> >> >> > tito
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Charles Kenyon"  wrote 
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > message news:eo43bjb2FHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> >> >> The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It 
> >> >> >> should
> >> >> >> not
> >> >> >> be making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to change
> >> >> >> this,
> >> >> >> you should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a 
> >> >> >> different
> >> >> >> global template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't 
> >> >> >> vary
> >> >> >> depending on the other contents of your computer or other factors,
> >> >> >> they
> >> >> >> can just be built into another global template once and not 
> >> >> >> changed.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to
> >> >> >> normal.dot and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on all
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> time anyway.)
> >> >> >> -- 
> >> >> >> Charles Kenyon
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version 
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
> >> >> >> --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> >> >> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> >> >> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> >> >> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:e%23D40Na2FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >> >> >>> Hi there,
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add commands 
> >> >> >>> to
> >> >> >>> the
> >> >> >>> menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I 
> >> >> >>> clean
> >> >> >>> them up (deleted).
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot 
> >> >> >>> each
> >> >> >>> time word start/quits...
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may 
> >> >> >>> increase
> >> >> >>> in
> >> >> >>> file size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in that
> >> >> >>> contains a VBA macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this is a
> >> >> >>> known
> >> >> >>> problem). Link
> >> >> >>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> My question:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 or 
> >> >> >>> is
> >> >> >>> there any other hotfix for this problem available?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> If no, how have others dealt with this issue?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> TIA and Regards from Switzerland...
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> tito
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> 
> 
>

Nope. Make your changes to the built-in menus and toolbars with the 
customization context in your template. I have three or four separate 
Add-Ins that all independently modify the built-in menus without any code. 
You need good documentation in the Add-In in case you get conflicts.

My Add-Ins remove commands and add others, some built-in and some that are 
custom commands, macros or AutoText. I know that the changes are in the 
Add-ins and not in normal.dot because if I unload my Add-Ins, the menus 
return to their default contents.

I generally build all of my custom commands in custom toolbars and then copy 
them to the built-in menus but the changes are all saved in my templates. I 
change them periodically (just made three changes to the File menu this 
week, again, in my Add-In).

I am not defending Word. Word is a huge program and has major bugs; what you 
are complaining about isn't major in my opinion. Especially since you have a 
ready way of avoiding the problem. You do not need to be running code to 
change the interface. If you insist on using code, your code could designate 
your template as the customization context rather than normal.dot.

If you want to complain, the complaint department is elsewhere. I am a 
fellow user who has received a lot of good help in these newsgroups and am 
trying to share my experience with you. That is experience gathered from 
Word 3 to Word 2003. I've used the methods I am talking about distributing 
interface changes through a statewide law practice with 60 offices and 
hundreds of computers with lawyers (scary) as primary users. You are 
certainly welcome to continue being upset with Word and not try the methods 
that have worked for me, though.
-- 
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
 --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"Ray Hernandez"  wrote in message 
news:40311D7E-7EC3-44A6-A680-6C19945977C0@microsoft.com...
> Charles,
>
> The modification involves the Word Toolbar and not a user defined/created
> Toolbar and therefore since the defs for that toolbar are been maintained 
> in
> normal.dot same problems.
>
> I do not know how to clarify the issue of why we use coding for creating
> menus and replacing built in menu commands with our own functionality 
> other
> than to say to you that things change over time and we find it a lot 
> easier
> to modify the code than to use the toolbar customization which is 
> cumbersome
> at best. Perhaps menus and toolbars that you build never change, are not 
> part
> of the Word built-in toolbars and therefore are basically static over time
> and that is why that methodology works for you, but it does not work for 
> us.
>
> Bottom line if the functionality exists within the product it should work 
> as
> it is supposed too.
>
> "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
>
>> You can put your changes in some other global template (without using 
>> code
>> or using the code only once to create the change). Once the change is 
>> made
>> and you save your global, it sticks. That is, it does not need to be 
>> redone
>> each time. You propogate that template to go into the user's startup 
>> folder
>> (a separate location for each user). You change the user login script to
>> update your template upon login so any changes can be made in one 
>> location
>> and will automatically propogate each time a person logs in.
>>
>> See http://addbalance.com/word/movetotemplate.htm for step-by-step
>> instructions on moving / sharing / copying / backing-up customizations
>> including AutoText, AutoCorrect, keyboard assignments, toolbars, macros,
>> etc.
>>
>> The way you are doing this now, each time your user starts his/her 
>> computer
>> normal.dot is being altered. Since there are other ways that normal.dot 
>> gets
>> altered by the user during the course of regular use (i.e. AutoText, 
>> styles)
>> your changes would be saved whenever one of the user alterations is 
>> saved.
>> Thus the template bloat.
>> -- 
>> Charles Kenyon
>>
>> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>>
>> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
>> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>>
>> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>>
>> "Ray Hernandez"  wrote in message
>> news:55BA3B0B-5485-4DB4-BC9A-9C13E776DF56@microsoft.com...
>> > The reason to code the menu customizations in this matter is that they 
>> > are
>> > easier to maintain and to propagate thru the entire network. The
>> > customization is done to words toolbar. If you were to manually make 
>> > those
>> > changes as you suggested and those changes are stored within normal.dot
>> > then
>> > when a modification is propagated normal.dot would be replaced and any
>> > customization by the user would be lost. We have tried several 
>> > workaround
>> > fixes and the best one that seems to resolve the issue of the ever
>> > expanding
>> > normal.dot was to set the normal.dot already save to true, but the 
>> > issue
>> > there was that any user customizations would not be saved as well.
>> >
>> > As to this bug surprising you, it surprised as well, Microsoft has
>> > acknowledged it in KB873017.
>> >
>> > As I previously mentioned the reason I believe that this VBA command is
>> > not
>> > working properly is an Architectural issue in that if you create an 
>> > object
>> > with the same name it should overwrite a previously created object of 
>> > that
>> > same name, akin to explorer overwriting a file that you are copying 
>> > with
>> > the
>> > same name to a given folder. And therefore it would not force us to
>> > implement
>> > the workaround of having to create and delete commandbars. The reason
>> > that,
>> > that was a workaround was that unless you delete the created commandbar
>> > when
>> > exiting Word, every time Word starts up and executes the global 
>> > template
>> > containing the VBA code that creates the menu items it creates a new 
>> > one
>> > and
>> > the previous one is still there as well.
>> >
>> > "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Do you meet one of the two reasons I gave for making changes every 
>> >> time?
>> >> If
>> >> not but there is another one that I missed (very possible) please
>> >> illuminate
>> >> me.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not aware of the bug you mention although it surprises me.
>> >> -- 
>> >> Charles Kenyon
>> >>
>> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>> >>
>> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
>> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>> >>
>> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>> >>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>> >>
>> >> "Ray Hernandez" <Ray Hernandez@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> >> message
>> >> news:CB34B500-1843-46FC-8F85-EDB0EB7E4097@microsoft.com...
>> >> > The issue here is the use of the VBA Commandbar item, it does not
>> >> > matter
>> >> > where the code lives as long as it is used within a global template,
>> >> > the
>> >> > bug
>> >> > is within word where it automatically detects a change in the
>> >> > Normal.dot
>> >> > when
>> >> > in reality none exist. The main problem that was been worked around 
>> >> > by
>> >> > programactically creating and then deleting the menu items is the
>> >> > abnormality
>> >> > of the word logic that instead of replacing the same named instance 
>> >> > of
>> >> > a
>> >> > commandbar upon recreation word creatates another one and therefore 
>> >> > it
>> >> > would
>> >> > multiply infinitum. The issue here is that Microsoft needs to 
>> >> > seriously
>> >> > address this issue and resolve the problem. So the question to you 
>> >> > guys
>> >> > up
>> >> > at
>> >> > Microsoft is when can we expect a fix?
>> >> >
>> >> > "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Your global.dot should have the changes you mention done once, with
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> customization context being the global template.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The changes should be in place, then, each time the template is
>> >> >> loaded.
>> >> >> (It
>> >> >> is loaded when it is in the Startup folder.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It does not make any changes to the normal.dot file at all.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There are two reasons I know of for making changes each time you
>> >> >> load/unload
>> >> >> the file using code:
>> >> >> (1) The changes are different each time you load the file because 
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> take
>> >> >> into account outside events or variables - that is, they are 
>> >> >> dynamic
>> >> >> changes.
>> >> >> (2) You have some other Add-In that is messing with your changes 
>> >> >> after
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> file is loaded and you can't figure out how to block this.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Otherwise, just make your changes once, manually or using code, and
>> >> >> leave
>> >> >> them alone. I have over 15 global .dot files loaded in Word, most 
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> which
>> >> >> make a particular change to the interface. They work together quite
>> >> >> well.
>> >> >> None of them makes the changes using code.
>> >> >> -- 
>> >> >> Charles Kenyon
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version 
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>> >> >>
>> >> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>> >> >>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> >> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> >> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> >> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
>> >> >> news:uB5Wzir2FHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> >> >> > Hi there,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly 
>> >> >> > enough
>> >> >> > what
>> >> >> > is going on....
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > - I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that 
>> >> >> > contains
>> >> >> > vba
>> >> >> > macros.
>> >> >> > - This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
>> >> >> >    - Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog
>> >> >> > because
>> >> >> > we have more than 500 templates in our company)
>> >> >> >    - Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
>> >> >> >    - replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
>> >> >> > - When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and
>> >> >> > standard
>> >> >> > toolbar
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a 
>> >> >> > global
>> >> >> > template instead of modifying the normal.dot file.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit 
>> >> >> > Word.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks for your continued help, Regards
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > tito
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Charles Kenyon"  
>> >> >> > wrote
>> >> >> > in
>> >> >> > message news:eo43bjb2FHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> >> >> >> The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It
>> >> >> >> should
>> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >> be making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to 
>> >> >> >> change
>> >> >> >> this,
>> >> >> >> you should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a
>> >> >> >> different
>> >> >> >> global template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't
>> >> >> >> vary
>> >> >> >> depending on the other contents of your computer or other 
>> >> >> >> factors,
>> >> >> >> they
>> >> >> >> can just be built into another global template once and not
>> >> >> >> changed.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to
>> >> >> >> normal.dot and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on 
>> >> >> >> all
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> time anyway.)
>> >> >> >> -- 
>> >> >> >> Charles Kenyon
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented 
>> >> >> >> version
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is 
>> >> >> >> awesome!
>> >> >> >> --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> >> >> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> >> >> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> >> >> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:e%23D40Na2FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> >> >> >>> Hi there,
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> When Word 2003 starts some Add-Ins that I programmed add 
>> >> >> >>> commands
>> >> >> >>> to
>> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >>> menubar and some custom toolbars are created. When Word ends I
>> >> >> >>> clean
>> >> >> >>> them up (deleted).
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> In Word 2003 this can lead to a size increase in the normal.dot
>> >> >> >>> each
>> >> >> >>> time word start/quits...
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> According to Microsoft KB: 873017 (Your Normal.dot file may
>> >> >> >>> increase
>> >> >> >>> in
>> >> >> >>> file size when you quit Word 2003 if a Word-specific add-in 
>> >> >> >>> that
>> >> >> >>> contains a VBA macro is loaded when you start Word 2003) this 
>> >> >> >>> is a
>> >> >> >>> known
>> >> >> >>> problem). Link
>> >> >> >>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;873017
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> My question:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Has this problem now been fixed with Office 2003 Service Pack 2 
>> >> >> >>> or
>> >> >> >>> is
>> >> >> >>> there any other hotfix for this problem available?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> If no, how have others dealt with this issue?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> TIA and Regards from Switzerland...
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> tito
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>

Charles,

Based on your last post it is obvious that Iam wasting my time here.
One, Iam not upset, two, just because you do not chose to code does not make 
your methods any better or worse than using the VBA functionality. These 
newsgroups are suppose to address problems that we are having and hopefully 
getting meaningful help. I refer you back to KB873017 the issue is a 
programming issue your solutions do not offer this specific type of solution. 
And by the way chest pounding has never impressed nor intimidate me, all that 
it reflect is insecurity so please keep this type of behavior to yourself it 
has no place in this context.

"Charles Kenyon" wrote:

> Nope. Make your changes to the built-in menus and toolbars with the 
> customization context in your template. I have three or four separate 
> Add-Ins that all independently modify the built-in menus without any code. 
> You need good documentation in the Add-In in case you get conflicts.
> 
> My Add-Ins remove commands and add others, some built-in and some that are 
> custom commands, macros or AutoText. I know that the changes are in the 
> Add-ins and not in normal.dot because if I unload my Add-Ins, the menus 
> return to their default contents.
> 
> I generally build all of my custom commands in custom toolbars and then copy 
> them to the built-in menus but the changes are all saved in my templates. I 
> change them periodically (just made three changes to the File menu this 
> week, again, in my Add-In).
> 
> I am not defending Word. Word is a huge program and has major bugs; what you 
> are complaining about isn't major in my opinion. Especially since you have a 
> ready way of avoiding the problem. You do not need to be running code to 
> change the interface. If you insist on using code, your code could designate 
> your template as the customization context rather than normal.dot.
> 
> If you want to complain, the complaint department is elsewhere. I am a 
> fellow user who has received a lot of good help in these newsgroups and am 
> trying to share my experience with you. That is experience gathered from 
> Word 3 to Word 2003. I've used the methods I am talking about distributing 
> interface changes through a statewide law practice with 60 offices and 
> hundreds of computers with lawyers (scary) as primary users. You are 
> certainly welcome to continue being upset with Word and not try the methods 
> that have worked for me, though.
> -- 
> Charles Kenyon
> 
> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> 
> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> 
> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> 
> "Ray Hernandez"  wrote in message 
> news:40311D7E-7EC3-44A6-A680-6C19945977C0@microsoft.com...
> > Charles,
> >
> > The modification involves the Word Toolbar and not a user defined/created
> > Toolbar and therefore since the defs for that toolbar are been maintained 
> > in
> > normal.dot same problems.
> >
> > I do not know how to clarify the issue of why we use coding for creating
> > menus and replacing built in menu commands with our own functionality 
> > other
> > than to say to you that things change over time and we find it a lot 
> > easier
> > to modify the code than to use the toolbar customization which is 
> > cumbersome
> > at best. Perhaps menus and toolbars that you build never change, are not 
> > part
> > of the Word built-in toolbars and therefore are basically static over time
> > and that is why that methodology works for you, but it does not work for 
> > us.
> >
> > Bottom line if the functionality exists within the product it should work 
> > as
> > it is supposed too.
> >
> > "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
> >
> >> You can put your changes in some other global template (without using 
> >> code
> >> or using the code only once to create the change). Once the change is 
> >> made
> >> and you save your global, it sticks. That is, it does not need to be 
> >> redone
> >> each time. You propogate that template to go into the user's startup 
> >> folder
> >> (a separate location for each user). You change the user login script to
> >> update your template upon login so any changes can be made in one 
> >> location
> >> and will automatically propogate each time a person logs in.
> >>
> >> See http://addbalance.com/word/movetotemplate.htm for step-by-step
> >> instructions on moving / sharing / copying / backing-up customizations
> >> including AutoText, AutoCorrect, keyboard assignments, toolbars, macros,
> >> etc.
> >>
> >> The way you are doing this now, each time your user starts his/her 
> >> computer
> >> normal.dot is being altered. Since there are other ways that normal.dot 
> >> gets
> >> altered by the user during the course of regular use (i.e. AutoText, 
> >> styles)
> >> your changes would be saved whenever one of the user alterations is 
> >> saved.
> >> Thus the template bloat.
> >> -- 
> >> Charles Kenyon
> >>
> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> >>
> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> >>
> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
> >>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> >>
> >> "Ray Hernandez"  wrote in message
> >> news:55BA3B0B-5485-4DB4-BC9A-9C13E776DF56@microsoft.com...
> >> > The reason to code the menu customizations in this matter is that they 
> >> > are
> >> > easier to maintain and to propagate thru the entire network. The
> >> > customization is done to words toolbar. If you were to manually make 
> >> > those
> >> > changes as you suggested and those changes are stored within normal.dot
> >> > then
> >> > when a modification is propagated normal.dot would be replaced and any
> >> > customization by the user would be lost. We have tried several 
> >> > workaround
> >> > fixes and the best one that seems to resolve the issue of the ever
> >> > expanding
> >> > normal.dot was to set the normal.dot already save to true, but the 
> >> > issue
> >> > there was that any user customizations would not be saved as well.
> >> >
> >> > As to this bug surprising you, it surprised as well, Microsoft has
> >> > acknowledged it in KB873017.
> >> >
> >> > As I previously mentioned the reason I believe that this VBA command is
> >> > not
> >> > working properly is an Architectural issue in that if you create an 
> >> > object
> >> > with the same name it should overwrite a previously created object of 
> >> > that
> >> > same name, akin to explorer overwriting a file that you are copying 
> >> > with
> >> > the
> >> > same name to a given folder. And therefore it would not force us to
> >> > implement
> >> > the workaround of having to create and delete commandbars. The reason
> >> > that,
> >> > that was a workaround was that unless you delete the created commandbar
> >> > when
> >> > exiting Word, every time Word starts up and executes the global 
> >> > template
> >> > containing the VBA code that creates the menu items it creates a new 
> >> > one
> >> > and
> >> > the previous one is still there as well.
> >> >
> >> > "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Do you meet one of the two reasons I gave for making changes every 
> >> >> time?
> >> >> If
> >> >> not but there is another one that I missed (very possible) please
> >> >> illuminate
> >> >> me.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm not aware of the bug you mention although it surprises me.
> >> >> -- 
> >> >> Charles Kenyon
> >> >>
> >> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> >> >>
> >> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
> >> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> >> >>
> >> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
> >> >>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> >> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> >> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> >> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Ray Hernandez" <Ray Hernandez@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> >> >> message
> >> >> news:CB34B500-1843-46FC-8F85-EDB0EB7E4097@microsoft.com...
> >> >> > The issue here is the use of the VBA Commandbar item, it does not
> >> >> > matter
> >> >> > where the code lives as long as it is used within a global template,
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > bug
> >> >> > is within word where it automatically detects a change in the
> >> >> > Normal.dot
> >> >> > when
> >> >> > in reality none exist. The main problem that was been worked around 
> >> >> > by
> >> >> > programactically creating and then deleting the menu items is the
> >> >> > abnormality
> >> >> > of the word logic that instead of replacing the same named instance 
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > commandbar upon recreation word creatates another one and therefore 
> >> >> > it
> >> >> > would
> >> >> > multiply infinitum. The issue here is that Microsoft needs to 
> >> >> > seriously
> >> >> > address this issue and resolve the problem. So the question to you 
> >> >> > guys
> >> >> > up
> >> >> > at
> >> >> > Microsoft is when can we expect a fix?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Your global.dot should have the changes you mention done once, with
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> customization context being the global template.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The changes should be in place, then, each time the template is
> >> >> >> loaded.
> >> >> >> (It
> >> >> >> is loaded when it is in the Startup folder.)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> It does not make any changes to the normal.dot file at all.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> There are two reasons I know of for making changes each time you
> >> >> >> load/unload
> >> >> >> the file using code:
> >> >> >> (1) The changes are different each time you load the file because 
> >> >> >> they
> >> >> >> take
> >> >> >> into account outside events or variables - that is, they are 
> >> >> >> dynamic
> >> >> >> changes.
> >> >> >> (2) You have some other Add-In that is messing with your changes 
> >> >> >> after
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> file is loaded and you can't figure out how to block this.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Otherwise, just make your changes once, manually or using code, and
> >> >> >> leave
> >> >> >> them alone. I have over 15 global .dot files loaded in Word, most 
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> which
> >> >> >> make a particular change to the interface. They work together quite
> >> >> >> well.
> >> >> >> None of them makes the changes using code.
> >> >> >> -- 
> >> >> >> Charles Kenyon
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version 
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
> >> >> >>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
> >> >> >> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
> >> >> >> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
> >> >> >> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:uB5Wzir2FHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> >> >> >> > Hi there,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly 
> >> >> >> > enough
> >> >> >> > what
> >> >> >> > is going on....
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > - I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that 
> >> >> >> > contains
> >> >> >> > vba
> >> >> >> > macros.
> >> >> >> > - This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
> >> >> >> >    - Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog
> >> >> >> > because
> >> >> >> > we have more than 500 templates in our company)
> >> >> >> >    - Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
> >> >> >> >    - replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
> >> >> >> > - When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and
> >> >> >> > standard
> >> >> >> > toolbar
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a 
> >> >> >> > global
> >> >> >> > template instead of modifying the normal.dot file.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit 
> >> >> >> > Word.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thanks for your continued help, Regards
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > tito
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > "Charles Kenyon"  
> >> >> >> > wrote
> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> > message news:eo43bjb2FHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> >> >> >> The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It
> >> >> >> >> should

Again, you are making changes (unnecessarily) to normal.dot. Word is 
detecting a real change that you are making.
-- 
Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
 --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

"Ray Hernandez" <Ray Hernandez@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message 
news:CB34B500-1843-46FC-8F85-EDB0EB7E4097@microsoft.com...
> The issue here is the use of the VBA Commandbar item, it does not matter
> where the code lives as long as it is used within a global template, the 
> bug
> is within word where it automatically detects a change in the Normal.dot 
> when
> in reality none exist. The main problem that was been worked around by
> programactically creating and then deleting the menu items is the 
> abnormality
> of the word logic that instead of replacing the same named instance of a
> commandbar upon recreation word creatates another one and therefore it 
> would
> multiply infinitum. The issue here is that Microsoft needs to seriously
> address this issue and resolve the problem. So the question to you guys up 
> at
> Microsoft is when can we expect a fix?
>
> "Charles Kenyon" wrote:
>
>> Your global.dot should have the changes you mention done once, with the
>> customization context being the global template.
>>
>> The changes should be in place, then, each time the template is loaded. 
>> (It
>> is loaded when it is in the Startup folder.)
>>
>> It does not make any changes to the normal.dot file at all.
>>
>> There are two reasons I know of for making changes each time you 
>> load/unload
>> the file using code:
>> (1) The changes are different each time you load the file because they 
>> take
>> into account outside events or variables - that is, they are dynamic
>> changes.
>> (2) You have some other Add-In that is messing with your changes after 
>> the
>> file is loaded and you can't figure out how to block this.
>>
>> Otherwise, just make your changes once, manually or using code, and leave
>> them alone. I have over 15 global .dot files loaded in Word, most of 
>> which
>> make a particular change to the interface. They work together quite well.
>> None of them makes the changes using code.
>> -- 
>> Charles Kenyon
>>
>> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>>
>> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
>> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>>
>> See also the MVP FAQ: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/ which is awesome!
>>  --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
>> This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
>> and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
>> from my ignorance and your wisdom.
>>
>> "Tito Harris"  wrote in message
>> news:uB5Wzir2FHA.3420@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> > Hi there,
>> >
>> > Thanks for your replies. I believe I did not explain clearly enough 
>> > what
>> > is going on....
>> >
>> > - I have a global.dot file in the Word startup folder that contains vba
>> > macros.
>> > - This file is loaded when Word starts and does the following:
>> >    - Replace the File, New... command (we have our own New Dialog 
>> > because
>> > we have more than 500 templates in our company)
>> >    - Adds a menu item in the menu Insert
>> >    - replaces the New icon in the standard toolbar (see above)
>> > - When Word quits I restore the original state of the menubar and 
>> > standard
>> > toolbar
>> >
>> > So I am not sure what you mean when you write I should use a global
>> > template instead of modifying the normal.dot file.
>> >
>> > BTW... the normal.dot file increases by 5KB each time I quit Word.
>> >
>> > Thanks for your continued help, Regards
>> >
>> > tito
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "Charles Kenyon"  wrote in
>> > message news:eo43bjb2FHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> >> The problem is in the Add-In, rather than in Word, itself. It should 
>> >> not
>> >> be making changes in normal.dot. If you have the ability to change 
>> >> this,
>> >> you should, as Suzanne suggested, have the changes made in a different
>> >> global template. If the changes are static, that is, they don't vary
>> >> depending on the other contents of your computer or other factors, 
>> >> they
>> >> can just be built into another global template once and not changed.
>> >>
>> >> Otherwise, turn on the option to prompt before saving changes to
>> >> normal.dot and when prompted, say no. (This option should be on all 
>> >> the
>> >> time anyway.)
>> >> -- 
>> >> Charles Kenyon
>> >>
>> >> Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word
>> >>
>> >> Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
>> >> Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide
>> >&